Very simple content management system?

[tpspoons]

I'm making a site for a this very simple website for a client. Its basically just a few pages with some basic text and images that doesn't need to be updated too often. I hooked it up to CushyCMS for the time being and that has been working great so far. Now though he wants a news page that he can update easily, and he wants to be able to add pages himself, both of which are features Cushy CMS does not offer.

I was thinking of going with WordPress since I have experience with that, but it just seems like an ott solution for such a simple website.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

[graylensman]

Given that your client has expanded his needs beyond what your original vision was, it's safe to assume he'll do the same in the future. Go with WordPress or whatever allows you that additional flexibility.

[shane-c]

ExpressionEngine is my favorite. Flexible and awesome. It's probably not the simplest CMS out there, but I've made some really simple sites with it without any trouble, and it leaves you open for expansion.

[tpspoons]

It looks fairly good but I don't see what advantages it has over WordPress? What made you choose it over other options?

Thanks.

[ajcates]

http://www.wolfcms.org/

[birdwing]

Originally Posted by tpspoons

It looks fairly good but I don't see what advantages it has over WordPress? What made you choose it over other options?

Thanks.

ExpressionEngine is easier to customize than wordpress. I should say more customizable to be completely honest.


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Its from my experience that (at least the clients i've had so far) don't want more features than they can think about.

What I usually do is ask what they want, determine what they will need to update in the future or if they have a news section. Then I use PHP and mySQL to build them a customized admin panel that has the features they need.

Because I built it myself I pretty much guarantee they will come back to me when they need a new feature or an update to something not in their admin panel.

If you want a good CMS then you can check out the CMS Matrix the site allows you to select different CMS systems and compare their features side by side. That way you can find the right one for this project.



if you want to take up the initiative and program a simple database driven CMS yourself:

It's really not that difficult when you use tools already available. I use FCKeditor / CKeditor to give them a RTE. It can range from a fully functional WYSIWYG editor to a simple forum input like on Kirupa. It's all completely customizable. This makes adding there data to the database easier because, FCKeditor / CKeditor replaces a textarea in a form that you access the same way you would access a textarea, through its name field. The only difference, is everything they put in is output as HTML so no more nl2br() functions and testing to get the data to show up properly

From there I use Jquery for all my Javascript needs, its a simpler way of coding thats fully documented AND it comes with hundreds of fully functional plugins.

And for the last part the PHP I use Code Igniter it's by far the best PHP framework I have found yet, AND its fully documented.

[ajcates]

@bridwing
Have you seen http://www.recessframework.org/ ?

[birdwing]

Yah i've seen it. Code Igniter has a lot of the same features. I saw their video on how to make a fully functional blog... and it took 20 mins... I was hooked

[shane-c]

Originally Posted by tpspoons

It looks fairly good but I don't see what advantages it has over WordPress? What made you choose it over other options?

Thanks.

It has a ton of advantages over WordPress, in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, WordPress is awesome for what it's supposed to do, and I've used it on plenty of projects, but it just doesn't come close to EE in terms of flexibility.

For example, in WordPress each page/post is basically just two fields: title and content. There's also "custom fields" you can add, but they're pretty limited (if you've ever tried using them for page content, you'll know what I mean).

In EE, things work differently. All content/data in EE is contained in "weblogs" (kind of a misnomer - "weblogs" in EE can be any type/set of content). Each weblog you make has its own preferences you can set - I won't go into them all here, but basically it means you have total control over how content is handled. When you create a weblog, you also assign it a field group. A field group is a set of fields you create, that make up all of the different pieces of content that weblog can have. For instance, you could make a weblog called "Pages", assign it to a field group you create, called "Page Field Group", and create two fields in that field group - title and content. That would basically replicate a simple WordPress "page". Each field has a type, whether it's a date field, text input (you can set a limit on character count), text area, and if you get the LG TinyMCE plugin, which I recommend, a WordPress-like WYSIWYG editor (there's other field types, too). Each field also has its own options, for even more flexibility. Where this really becomes incredibly valuable is when you have a page with a many different sets of content.

For instance, if you have an online store, you could create a weblog called "Store Items", assign it to a field group you create called "Store Item Field Group", and within that field group create fields for 'item name', 'item image', 'item description intro', and 'extended item description'. Then, you create a new "entry" under the weblog "Store Items", and you'll have those four fields to fill out for every item you add.

And your code to display that content is also really simple and awesome. It would be something like:

<html>
<head>
<title>Page Title</title>
</head>
<body>
{exp:weblog:entries weblog="store_items"}
    <div class="item"> 
        <h1>{item_name}</h1>
        <img src="{item_image}" alt="{item_name}" />
        <p>{item_description_intro}</p>
        <p class="moreInfo">{extended_item_description}</p>
    </div>
{/exp:weblog:entries}
</body>
</html>

So the {exp:weblog:entries .... } tag acts like a "while" loop, in that every entry you have that matches its parameters (in this case just 'weblog="store_items"' - but it could also be things like category, orderby, limit, etc) is displayed in the code between the tags, as a loop. So if you have five item entries, you'll see five iterations of that code. Pretty simple and obvious. Notice the variable tags, ie "{item_name}", which correspond to the fields that you created for this weblog. As you can see, it's really easy to implement EE into any HTML/CSS. Of course, this example is really simplified and dumbed-down, in a real project you'd probably have different "templates" for your header, footer, nav, etc.

Anyway, I'm gonna wrap this up because it's already taking too damn long, but there are a lot of other features off EE that make it really flexible and powerful, too.

It is a commercial CMS, so you're looking at $250 each for commercial projects, which is easily worth it in my opinion (they do have volume discount too, and you don't have to buy all the licenses at once to get it, they just keep track of how many you've bought over time, pretty sweet). There's also a free version you can use to learn and test with, too. A free, open-source CMS like WordPress is awesome if it's a site you plan on actively maintaining, but for client work where you just want to create it, hand it off, and forget it, I think it's much more important for it to be stable, solid, and reliable. It's a huge time sink to have to go back to old WordPress projects and update WordPress, then update every single plugin you have installed, then spend forever trying to figure out why some random thing is now broken. To me, that's where open-source can't compete with commercial.

Sorry for the long rambling post, I've become quite the fanboy I guess. If you do decide to try it out, or want to learn more, let me know and I'll get you some links on where to get started.

And yeah, I'm a CodeIgniter fan, too (made by EllisLab, who also make EE). EE 2.0 will be coming soon, and it's built on CodeIgniter, which is exciting and awesome.

[tpspoons]

^ Thanks for the details! I'll have to see if the client is willing to pay the cash though (which unfortunately I doubt, but who knows )

[simplistik]

Well, someone forgot to mention that EE is hands down NOT near user friendly for clients, especially non web savvy ones, when compared to WP. Which is why we've gravitated towards WP, from client studies we found that WP provides a much better UX.

Now EE2.0 is just plain dead sexy, from it's initial look. And we will probably switch to EE when that time comes.

For a simple site, you can just get the free Core version of EE, which is all it sounds as if you need.

With all that being said:

Originally Posted by shane-c

For example, in WordPress each page/post is basically just two fields: title and content. There's also "custom fields" you can add, but they're pretty limited (if you've ever tried using them for page content, you'll know what I mean).

I have to disagree w/ this 100%. I've developed plugins/extensions for both WP and EE. And both of them have nearly the same exact amount of flexibility out of the box. In terms of using Custom Fields for WP and it being "limited" that's 100% false. The custom fields can be extended to do whatever you need them to do through the functions.php file of any given theme. You're kidding yourself you really expect a client to choose from a list of custom fields and then give it a value. You should be creating a GUId version of custom fields to make it's UX more seamless.

WP is a little more limited in that, a lot of the content you need to access requires you to be in "The Loop" but even that is easy enough to get around if you really know what you're doing. But EE does excel in making it a bit easier to access content.

Also, EE provides far superior caching than WP, and on average does provide faster page delivery.

WP also semi-fails in the plugin department, in that for every 1 great plugin, it probably has 10 terrible plugins that try to do the same thing, and they're all publically available and you have no clue which one is the better one. It's basically like the Flashkit of plugin repositories.

EE has a very dedicated team that goes and tests the plugins and extensions that they endorse, so the list while it's smaller is more refined and all in all just better. Which also is reflected in the people who actually do make the plugins/extensions. The developers both in house and 3rd party for EE tend to produce significantly more refined product.

One place that I'd say WP excels over EE tremendously is global variables and functions. EE doesn't make it nearly as easy to establish a global variable or function (it is possible though) as Wordpress does. Do to the unlimited flexibility of WP functions.php file you can pop pretty much anything in that bad boy and it's globally accessible from both the admin level and the front end level, w/o any hitches.

EE (pro version) also can do multi-sites natively, where WP you have to get WPMU. Which isn't a big deal, but it is nice to not have to be dependent on waiting for the multi-site extension to update cause the base app updated, like you do w/ WP.

I love EE but I'd suggest for the sake of your client and usabily, you just use WP since you just don't need the raw power the EE can provide, as you will probably never take advantage of it.

my

[Anogar]

Django > your silly PHP frameworks.

[tpspoons]

^ I just ran the EE example on the site, and I have to say I can't see this client following that too easily. I had to walk him through Cushy CMS a couple of times before he got the hang of it... Out of interest though will the syntax for EE 2.0 be the same? So if I make the site using EE now will I just be able to upgrade to 2.0 when it is released without too many troubles?

He actually wanted these features when I first created the website just over a year ago, but the hosting package he bought didn't support PHP or MySQL (unless he paid over £100 to upgrade the account). He didn't want to switch hosts because of the price he paid for this one (I tried to be polite about it but he just got ridiculously ripped off).

Thanks for all the replies by the way.

[Templarian]

Yea, I've never used EE, since most site I've made recently are Wordpress based. Explaining the basics, writing a few custom plugins for better integration and it's up and running. Personally for as long as it's a content heavy news site Wordpress does the job.

Of course though from a developers perspective Wordpress is easy, but to be serious it's kind of ugly in the way it works, but it can be subjective. If you put it in scope you're only touching the site for 2 weeks leaving it's awesome.

[shane-c]

Originally Posted by simplistik

Well, someone forgot to mention that EE is hands down NOT near user friendly for clients, especially non web savvy ones, when compared to WP. Which is why we've gravitated towards WP, from client studies we found that WP provides a much better UX.

Now EE2.0 is just plain dead sexy, from it's initial look. And we will probably switch to EE when that time comes.

Yup, you're very right about that. The WordPress admin UI is vastly better than EE's right now (it was designed by Happy Cog after all). Sorry I didn't mention that in my other post, it is very important.

But yeah, that's one thing that looks like it's going to be a huge improvement in EE 2.0, which will be very nice.

Originally Posted by simplistik

In terms of using Custom Fields for WP and it being "limited" that's 100% false. The custom fields can be extended to do whatever you need them to do through the functions.php file of any given theme. You're kidding yourself you really expect a client to choose from a list of custom fields and then give it a value. You should be creating a GUId version of custom fields to make it's UX more seamless.

Maybe "limited" was a bad word choice, because you're right, you can do a lot with them if you put the time/work into it. But you know what I'm talking about, right? They just don't seem to be nearly as polished as the rest of WP, and in my experience (which clearly isn't nearly as extensive as yours in WP), they have been kind of a pain. I find EE's use of custom fields to be a ton easier and more useful. And correct me if I'm wrong, but in WP the custom fields exist on a per-page basis, right? EE's use of field groups and weblogs makes a lot more sense to me.

Originally Posted by simplistik

One place that I'd say WP excels over EE tremendously is global variables and functions. EE doesn't make it nearly as easy to establish a global variable or function (it is possible though) as Wordpress does. Do to the unlimited flexibility of WP functions.php file you can pop pretty much anything in that bad boy and it's globally accessible from both the admin level and the front end level, w/o any hitches.

Another great point, although this isn't an issue very often for me. I'm curious to see if that's something that changes with EE 2.0.

Simp, I'd be interested to hear how you handle client WP sites as far as updates, both to WP itself and for plugins. That's something that's been an issue with WP for me.

Originally Posted by Anogar

Django > your silly PHP frameworks.

I keep meaning to get into that, but being from Montana I have an inherent fear of new things.