Managerial Ignorance

[Kitiara]

Right, I'm going to have a whinge now.

I've just come out of a meeting with the manager of what's called the 'Continuous Improvement' department. They're in charge of developing the company. They're also the owners of the company Intranet. Right now, it's really quite pants, so they've got together a group of people (including me) to design and make a new one.

Good in theory, but there's one major drawback. We're lumbered with the head of this Continuous Improvement on the project, because it's 'hers'. She has no concept of good design. Everythign we have come up with so far is (and I quote) "too Internet-y". She wants "fun" and "exciting". She does not seem to care about file size, navigation problems, coding issues... She will not listen to those who actually know what they're talking about.

Consequently, we have ended up with the most God-awful site design I have ever had the misfortune to be associated with. And we can't have a go at her because she's sleeping with the CEO of the company and has a horrendous amount of power.

I'm not putting my name to this monstrosity. :scream:

[Andy]

I wouldn't mind as long as I get paid, cash heals all wounds. :P

[eilsoe]

But I guess theres also the case of principles here...

I'm not putting filterwueen.dk on my portfolio, 'cuz I know it sucks... but our client wanted it anyway...

[upuaut]

Write a letter Kit, to her, and cc'd to anyone else important stating the potential problems with the current work up and whatever solutions you can find to the problems, even if it means a complete contradiction to her wishes.
Save the letter.
Sit back and wait.

that's the only solution I can think of.

[h88]

Originally posted by Kitiara
Right, I'm going to have a whinge now.

I've just come out of a meeting with the manager of what's called the 'Continuous Improvement' department. They're in charge of developing the company. They're also the owners of the company Intranet.................

could i have a look at the site! curious :elderly:

cheers!
--h88

[Kitiara]

Alright, I'm attaching a gif of the latest design. Feel free to throw stones. Suffice it to say that I hate it. Really, really <i>hate</i> it. It's easily the worst site I've ever designed. But the woman loves it!

This is what she asked for, so this is what she's going to get. It could be worse I guess. Originally she wanted one of those hideous swirly type backgrounds behind all of this. That's one thing I managed to talk her out of.

It's like banging your head against a wall. We've tried explaining to her the difficulties in coding lots of swirls and swooshes, the problems the old machines will have in running anything too complicated, the fact that the design is essentially naff... But she's made her mind up.

[h88]

woh, really horrible !!!

[h88]

but something wrong, check http://www.churchill.com , ull find something else :|??

[Andy]

That gif was scary, what wrong with the current http://www.churchill.com

[Kitiara]

If it's the strapline that's different then that's the idea. It's part of their marketing thing... Otherwise I dunno. Probably because I stare at that website page too much that I don't notice stuff any more. :)

But you see what I mean about this. Vile, isn't it?

[Kitiara]

Andy - this isn't a change to www.churchill.com - that's staying the same! This is for the company Intranet. All the user manuals and info. That kind of thing.

[h88]

Originally posted by Kitiara
Andy - this isn't a change to www.churchill.com - that's staying the same! This is for the company Intranet. All the user manuals and info. That kind of thing.

ahh ok, so why dont you jus give her some better alternatives!

h88

[Kitiara]

We did. We made some really cool and funky ones, but she said they were all "too Internet-y". Well duhh...

First of all she said she wanted a bbc.co.uk style page, looking like a portal. So we did something along those lines, and she said it was OK. A day or so later and she's back having changed her mind. It's not exciting enough, she wants something more colourful and fun, ie: tacky. She wants Churchill dogs on there, despite the design brief saying not to put them on and steer away from branding.

There's millions of pages and content on this site, but she's so design driven. It's going to be impossible to group everything under her four headings of Me, You, We and Us. How are people supposed to know where to look?

[h88]

a friend said:

"the client is paying you so if the client says 'this is how it's going to be' no matter what you say"

yours,
h88

[Jubba]

*cough*assassination plot*cough*

[fester8542]

Kit,

I am so, so, so, so, sorry.

The level of sympathy I feel unimaginable.....

I know you might be borderline suicidal now....

if you ever need to talk.....lol

[Kitiara]

Not so much suicidal, but contemplating murder. Jubba wasn't far wrong with that plot you know... :evil:

[Kitiara]

Phil, that is <i>so</i> not funny... :)

I need to go and get some chocolate or something. I'm falling asleep at my desk and I daren't go near that monstrosity again for fear of lunch regurgitation...

[Guig0]

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!

My EYES!!!


I would feel sorry for you if I have not gone blind by YOU!!!

Ps: I have to ask to a friend of mine to write this for me, and the medical bills I´m sending to you. Hope you have "earned" a LOT of money to do that.

:P

[Kitiara]

Sadly I'm not, this is just part of my 9 - 5 job. But if I were a freelancer I'd charge a lot for this...

[reverendflash]

When I first came out of design school, I had a similar experience, only it was the CEO's sister...

I did David's advice, wrote a letter...

To make a long story short, I no longer work there, and this is what they have: http://www.plumpjack.com .

I guess the bottom line to my story is, be careful who you complain to...

Rev

:elderly:

[Jubba]

What you are working with could be worse Kit.

Check this out...

http://www.uglywebdesign.com/hall_of_shame.htm


it should make you feel a little better about your situation...


this is a past entry from that site:

THE SITE IS ABOUT UABILITY AND WEB DESIGN!!!

http://www.useit.com/

[Jubba]

Ahhahahahhahahaaaaaahaaaaaa

its going to take me a few weeks to recover from this one! ahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahdhsdhahhahahaha ahaha ahahahahhaaaaaa ahahahaaaaa

http://www.noahsarklimos.com/


it doesn't look too bad until you see that it scrolls to the right!!!

[RenaissanceGirl]

My symphaties Kit. I have had more than my share of awful clients that insist they know more about the internet and web-design than I do... I know exactly how you feel.

But hey, if they pay the bills...

[Guig0]

That´s the spirit!


Just kiding:P

[SureShot]

I can remember having the same problems with a client. They wanted something for a basket company they had and I came up some great designs.

We eneded up going with this puke green, terrible logo and pictures her daughter took. Needless to say I have NEVER added this site as a portfolio piece - it's just that horrible. But she payed me and that's what matters. They sign the pay cheque!

[mdipi]

ok, it seems like churchill is an insuranse co. correct? THEN WHY IS THE WHOLE PAGE FULL OF DOG PRINTS?! omg, no offense but if i worked there i WOULD LAUGH at it. dont ebarass your self and make sure your name isnt on there!

[lostinbeta]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:o

WTF WAS THAT!!!!????!?!?!!?!???!?!

I want to have a seizure just looking at it.

[mdipi]

lol like that site with the furry eggs! lol.

[lostinbeta]

What????

[telekinesis]

mdipi is on tweak...give him time to make sense!

[lostinbeta]

LOL :evil:

Yeah, because I don't remember any site with Furry Eggs.

[Jubba]

The Maddox site... Crappy Kids Art... and it was "Eggs that had ears" and a "Furry fire truck" just to clarify

[mdipi]

yes!someone remembered!

[lostinbeta]

Ok, furry fire truck I DO remember. And the eggs with ears.

NOT FURRY EGGS!

[mdipi]

well...........they had ears! and if the ears where bunny ears then they WERE furry! hahaha!

[lostinbeta]

Then thats furry eared eggs :P

[Raydred]

Kit, Im feeling the same kind of thing at work but in a less proactive manner ( i suppose)..
Heres what you got to do, Write a letter to her explaining your concerns, (like david said). You have to say something because if a manager is not doing their job right, its in your best interest and the interests of the company to get rid of the people and persons not doing the correct thing. You could also express your concerns to her bosses, and tell them this wont fly, and give them examples of good work and then bad work that shes making you do. As for fun and exciting, its great to have those elements, but we all can agree, that is not how most business is conducted. Its serious, strait forward. Nobody wants a "little kids" look when they go to buy a car lol

Those would be my suggestions, and if i missed someones comment and already mentioned this, i appologize hehe but i feel since you are part of the company (an employee) and you're doing most of the work( all employees) you should voice your opinion somehow =) But be peacefull, if you approch it with demand and with hostility, then you wont go no where =).

Anyway, someone my philosphies based on the Book of Raydred. You can get the B.O.R at

http://www.wowtheresbooksthaticanreadandmakemylifegreator not.com/bor

JK =)
hehe =)

[kirupa]

Hey Kit,
I know just how you feel. That is one of the reasons I completely stopped doing freelance work for other people. If it makes you feel any better, the worst site on the planet has to be: http://www.geocities.com/webtekrocks/

Cheers!
Kirupa :evil:

[lostinbeta]

I saw that through a link on spoono...LOL.

That is one of THE worst sites I have ever seen.


W00T New buttons are up!

[bcogswell11]

Haha I'm putting that one on my favorites list. Everytime I feel crappy about a site I will just go there and make myslef feel better!

Also, you got to wonder about the people that actually pay for their site to be made by these guys. Wow!

-brad-:cowboy:

[Iammontoya]

Kit, Kit, Kit... First of all, I really should charge you for the bottle of PeptoBismol I had to chug after seeing your site. That is, well, criminal.

I have to disagree with those that suggested a letter. I am a manager, and believe myself to be fair and impartial. The truth is, if you love your job, don't do the letter. With a letter like that you are saying "Here ma'am, here's a letter from me that says you're stupid, btw.. I've copied other people to let them know how stupid you are." That, simply, won't fly. Especially if she is "connected" (pun intended).

You can, however, express your point by building a better solution and camping on it. Just wait for the right opportunity. You can also gather some support in a round-about way: A user survey, for example. Given to all the users of the intranet in order to "Improve and gather experience through the voice of our dear employees". This will give others the chance to say how much the site "blows" and will not implicate you.


Finally, I have a client I'm dealing with now that has the same skewed reality. He thinks he nows web stuff and he just doesnt. The first thing he did? Well, he had a logo. It was small, ugly, beat up. He said "I'd like to have this in a format that can be easily transferred to billboards, print media, etc.. any size, anywhere. So, I spent 20 hours reproducing his image into a vector graphic. Tedious, Tedious work in Illustrator.

What did the client say? It's too perfect!

Oh well.. what can you do? Well, if it is freelance, you can give them back their money and say "Im afraid we're having problems producing your vision". We suggest you try these people, or that people.. bla bla bla..

If you are an employee of the company and you have bills to pay.

"Wow ma'am. I had no idea anyone could think the way you do"! _______that way they think it is a compliment.


Hang in there, Kit!

[Andy]

great link Kirupa, Is this site for real or is it suppose to be a good laugh? Its even worse then the sites I made with the geocities page builder (link on profile to one of them) when I first got the internet (not to long ago actually, sure I've been using a computer since I was 4 but I only got online the beginning this year, and already my knowledge is superior to anyone in my class, infidels, enemy's of Bill W G)

Edit : Why do I aways proof read after I post? Go to get into the habit of reading it before.

[h88]

Originally posted by kirupa
Hey Kit,
I know just how you feel. That is one of the reasons I completely stopped doing freelance work for other people. If it makes you feel any better, the worst site on the planet has to be: http://www.geocities.com/webtekrocks/

Cheers!
Kirupa :evil:

that website really ruxxxxxx, haha, just kiddin

yours,
h88

[Kitiara]

Well ladies and gentleman, I have a plan.

Thanks to the fact that th great woman in question can't keep an idea in her head for more than 10 minutes without changing it, I have accumulated a huge stockpile of designs for this Intranet.

I am therefore going to put it forward to the steering group that we run a little poll on the current Intranet. Set up some screen grabs of all the hard work I've done on some funky designs, as well as that Godawful monstrosity. Then let them vote for what they like.

After all, they are the people who will be using it, and it would be criminal not to ask their opinion, wouldn't it? *smiles sweetly*

Then if they go for the completely childish design I'll bow to their judgement and they'll get what's coming to them. If, on the other hand, they choose something a bit (how can I put this?) better, I shall feel smug and justified, but won't need to say a word as the people will have spoken. :evil:

[mdipi]

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! sounds good! lol that will most likely change her mind!:P

[Kitiara]

It's worth a try. My manager agress it's a good idea, so now I just have to go about this in a very subtle way...

[mdipi]

well i hope it works! now i gotta do some homework-eeek!

[telekinesis]

Good luck Kitiara! Blow her un-professional idea out of the water!

[mdipi]

kit if you could, when the voting is all over, will you post the final new page?

[Iammontoya]

Ah.. See? Im not so crazy after all.... (in sally field manner.... You love me! You really love me!)

[Kitiara]

I shall post the final design when it is agred upon. Fingers crossed it'll be a funky one.

In fact, I have scheduled a meeting this very afternoon to discuss the setting up of the aforementioned poll...

[upuaut]

well, Iammontoya, I will not get insulted just because you don't like my idea, but I will state that I have used this method in the past to great effect. Usually the insult which is produced by such letters can be minimalized with the right choice of words. I've called my supervisor a moron (in so many words) three times now in five years. I do not believe that he ever got insulted once, and in each instance I ended up getting things done my way. I will grant you this, that the letter option depends upon the recipiant and that some thought needs to be used when taking this approach.
Honesty, even with a little dishonesty mixed in, is still the best option in almost all situations... imo

[upuaut]

man Kirupa (http://www.geocities.com/webtekrocks/) you're right on the mark with that site. These guys should be put in stocks and beaten for producing this site. Anyone who hires them should have the same treatment.

I will add one thing to the letter option statement above. My personal choice in life is that I would rather be honest than work. Some people are not that way. If you value work more than principals then just do whatever it takes to make a buck. I would rather work at McDonalds flipping burgers than to compromise my principals. :)

PS - that is not to say that anyone who chooses another solution besides the letter is compromising their principals, just compromising mine. :)

PPS - there was an oppertunity when my director came to all of us (mainframe crew), and asked why the tape library was so screwed up. We were all being diciplined for errors. I took out my letter, and sowed him that ideas had been presented, but in the end the supervisor implimented a set of ideas which were in direct contradiction to the worker's thoughts. That day, **** flowed uphill rather than along it's normal path. :) (in the voice of Hanibal Smith) 'I love it when a plan comes together.'

[Iammontoya]

I will say what I will say with a smile on my face and sort of front porch comedic tone. Please do not take anything said here personally. Treat it more as one man's opinion; an editorial comment of sorts... nothing more.

I am not in disagreement with honesty.

I'm guessing Kit has a job because she needs one, and not just to make a statement about women in the workplace or people working, or making a stand for honesty in the workplace.

Most people work because the have families to feed and clothe or they simply need to feed/clothe themselves. To ignore such responsibilities to make a stand over the look of a website would not be wise. Is it really a compromise of ethics or morality? I guess that is subject to an individual's opinion.

All things considered, there is a right way to say almost anything; That much is true. However, I would say the group of people that choose the right words in times of conflict are definitely in the minority.

As it stands, it will still be "different strokes for different folks". We cannot fit cookie cutter solutions to everyone's situation. Some people respond to "in-your-face" confrontation. Some people choose a more diplomatic approach. One simply never knows. My advice, however, is that, when in doubt, choose a smart, diplomatic approach, and you will gain ground on the opposition without them knowing it.

And that, is simply my opinion. <smile>

[Kitiara]

Man, that site kirupa posted is even worse than my Intranet. Jeez, and these guys were posting tips on designing good websites?!?

[sintax321]

I can't belive that site Big K posted. What a piece of crap. Is it a joke. Please tell me thats a joke. My god I love the "learn the profesonal secrets of web designers" button. The only secret these guys know is how to suck ***. I think I'm going to go punch something I'm so mad about that site.

Hey Kit. If this is just for your 9 to 5 job I wouldn't worry about it to much. I'm in the same boat and u have to be careful. If u don't get fired for sending a letter stating your concerns and the boss agrees with u then u have another problem. The person u complaned about might not get fired just a talking to. Then u have someone in the office who hates u and wants u dead. IF u do write a letter be as vauge as possible and watch your words. Always frase your words as a suggestion.

One of the easyest things to do is to make your boss think it is his idea to do a differnt design. Thats what I do at work. I prersent them with two options and make them think they are making all of the decissons when there not.

This is the site I'm stuck working on from 9 to 5. Its not too bad but it gets real close sometimes. I have to realy fight to keep it on close to the right path.
www.municipal.gov.sk.ca (http://www.municipal.gov.sk.ca)

PS. Not all of this is my work. some of the pages my supervisor(who has no training) work.

[Jubba]

Originally posted by sintax321
The only secret these guys know is how to suck ***.


hahahah Man Sintax you kill me...

[sintax321]

I'm the "Humor Assaisn":ninja:
HEHEHE