Job Offers Rant

[paddy.]

Is it just me or has there recently been a lot of job offer threads saying:

"Hi guys, I'm looking for an extremely advanced actionscript coder with alot of experience in photoshop, flash and illustrator to make a site like www.kigot.com. If you design the site and I like it I will pay you $60. Email me if you are interested.

Thanks
Clueless
clueless@gmail.com"

:m: :{

I'm just getting really annoyed at all the posts titled "Designer Wanted" which then ask for a very talented designer who is also an actionscript god. Then you are expected to work for peanuts.

People need to understand that there aren't going to be alot of freelancers on these forums who are talented in both design and coding. Being primarily a designer, I tend to cannibalize tutorials and source files for my AS.

My skill in writing AS is currently not great, but it's getting there. If I can't figure out how to do something I'll ask on the forums or contract someone. But I still don't want to apply for jobs pretending to be a great coder.

These "employers" need to realize that
a) one person can't do everything,
b) you get what you pay for and
c) most designers and coders will ask for a t least half of the payment up front. None of this "if I like it I will pay you" cr@p.

[/rant]

Phew! I feel much better. I just needed to let off some steam.:crazy:

[Yeldarb]

Yeah, I've been noticing this, but just don't respond. Who knows, maybe someone will pick up the job, but the worst thing we can do is flame them. Then, if someone with a real job comes by, they may be less likely to post it in such a hostile environment. I've gotten a lot of work from the job offers forum (good work). But yeah, there are some people who don't understand that designers/developers do this as a job, not just a hobby. But oh well, that's the Internet for ya.

[zacus]

yeh man i know wat u mean those ppl arre craaazy

:crazy:

[andr.in]

make a site like www.kigot.com. If you design the site and I like it I will pay you $60.
haha :P You don't even get the k from kigot for that money :thumb:

real comedy comes from life itself...

[B3NKobe]

haha :P You don't even get the k from kigot for that money :thumb:

real comedy comes from life itself...
:lol::lol: ---- Agreed, Im sick of seeing these same threads also. People need to start being serious with all these prices. Sometimes I think its newbie designers who arnt very good who are getting paid $400 to do a site and instead they try to pay someone around $60 to do a good site, when they will get the $340 for it!

[ditt0]

That's one of the "happy" cases when they just want you to be a good designer and actionscriptor. Most of the time they ask for somthing like this : graphic designer, flash actionscriptor, css+xhtml coder, php coder, knowledge of mysql and unix, all in just one person. And yes, as u said, they expect you to work for a few dollars. I've seen that "trend" on monster.com and on hotjobs too.Maybe they want someone who can also cook and do laundry after the designing/coding/networking job is done :P

[hl]

tell him i'll make the preloader for him :) but i expect the 60 upfront ;)

[λ]

The ones that piss me off no end are the ones that are like

"Looking for talented coder in the Xyz Area in the state of Xyz"

Surely people can think of a better medium for that kind of offer than the web, where people from all over the world can view it?

[RabBell]

thank god, I was beginning to think I was the only one who'd noticed

these people need to wake up and smell the coffee, to get a good site they gotta spend. It's weird that they know what they're looking for but have no idea how much people who can do it can earn.

just wanna slap these people :hurt:

[McGuffin]

I also love the forum posts in the Flash forums that are titled "Actionscript Gurus Only" and then you get in the thread, and they're asking for help with an onEnterFrame or onRollOver event for the simplest of tasks.

Guess everyone's an idiot at some point... :P

[nohomedia]

never seen kigot.com...holy crap.

[trundrumbalind]

All your points, Paddy are completely true but the one thing you didn't mention is that LIFE is unfair. **** happens and everyone's out to look after themselves.

Asking for half upfront will always make the client say **** off. I make websites for music bands and the reason their management chooses me over people is that I don't make demands like that or give them any more headaches than they already have.

You gotta start from the bottom and LET people treat you like **** because everyone needs to start at the bottom. Just keep thinking that in a matter of time, it'll be YOU making the decisions and THEM being the ones who have to accomodate YOUR requests. It's **** but that's life mate.

[gonzales]

just pulled this off my local craigslist.org:


Looking for a graphic designer to work in a sweatshop-style environment.
What we need is someone to work up to 60 hours/week
(but only get paid to do 40 hours) at about $8/hour
(or somewhere near minimum wage).


What we're looking for:

-Someone with a graphic design degree (preferably someone who has gone to a 4 year college and owes around $30,000 in school loans).

-Non Art Institute graduates (because highschool graduates have a better understanding of art and design than these people)

-Someone who has no idea what livable wages are so we can exploit you into working for pennies

-Someone who prefers to use Adobe Pagemaker in OS 9 because our backwardsass company can't afford to spend $100-300 in the most recent graphic design programs available.

-An individual who prefers to not learn any programs like InDesign and Quark, the two industry-standard layout programs, because Pagemaker is the only program we can afford

-Preferably someone who is not in highschool. We need to drive those expectations lower for graphic designers so the industry doesn't have to pay people as much!

-Must be able to multi-task remedial tasks such as cleaning the office, washing dishes, and occasionally fetching us coffee in the mornings

-Must be able to use the following words in full sentences: high performing, diverse, dynamic, detail oriented, quality driven (employee does not need to perform these skills, just be able to talk about them in company meetings)

If you're an aspiring graphic designer who would like to get beat down with hard work and low pay, then we're the ones for you! Don't be fooled by other employers who tote things like "employee benefits" or "hip, cool, and challenging" because they're fooling you.

We are the real thing.
We are ready to hire you.


Job location is Portland
Compensation: Less than $10/hr (or minimum wage)
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
Reposting this message elsewhere is NOT OK.




59862850

[paddy.]

I've decided it's time to ressurect this thread as there have been another spait (sp?) of job offer threads from people asking for sites with ridiculous budgets. Plus some just plain stupid offers. Take this one guy/girl for example. He/she wants a site similar to www.mjau-mjau.com/images (http://www.mjau-mjau.com/imageview) (in fact this is a downloadable template which costs $54 for a private license). They want it designed by some one on the forums, probably from scratch, for $50.

It's just a joke and I'm sick of reading these, frankly, insulting posts.

[λ]

I've decided it's time to ressurect this thread as there have been another spait (sp?) of job offer threads from people asking for sites with ridiculous budgets. Plus some just plain stupid offers. Take this one guy/girl for example. He/she wants a site similar to www.mjau-mjau.com/images (http://www.mjau-mjau.com/imageview) (in fact this is a downloadable template which costs $54 for a private license). They want it designed by some one on the forums, probably from scratch, for $50.

It's just a joke and I'm sick of reading these, frankly, insulting posts.

If you don't like it, then don't reply to it (or possibly politely tell the person posting the thread that the budget is too low for you, and leave it there) - it's as simple as that. If people get no offers for things like that, then they might up the budget (or they won't get the project done, it's as simple as that).

[foodpk]

Oh yeah, I agree will all of the above. Frustrating, frustrating.
Also, I'm currently attending high school and I'd say my work is not bad (for instance, this is the test site i'm making for myself http://blippo.addr.com ), i make sites standards compilant, neat, small and i think well designed, although i have a lot yet to go.
Anyway, there are a lot of people here who give out job offers to high school students and expect them to do the work equivalent to a team of 5 professionals with degrees, but they want to pay them what you would pay a high school student.
Also, I hate it when people don't really know what they want and you have to guess by making new and new stuff repeatedly, but they still don't know what they want and people who like to interfere with the work of designers (hey why don't you use that font?)

[Voetsjoeba]

This type annoys me most:



I can't pay you now, but if the business goes well you're sure to get your part.


ahem ... *cough*
IF

[foodpk]

This type annoys me most:



ahem ... *cough*
IF
That actually means that you won't get paid at all.

[Voetsjoeba]

Exactly.

[ar]

Those kinds of threads really bother me too. Even if it seems like a good deal, you send them a message, later to find that they already found a person ten minutes after they posted. That gets really anoying. That's why I just started offering free services, so I could get the people's appreciation, and to build up my skills with designing and what not. I'm just saying, People, if you want something done, right, then think before you post, and concider that people have lives, and you can't just pay them with a can of dog food. Well, that's my rant.








!GB! - PEACE -

[CanadianGuy]

:lol: voets. I did a site for a relatives business (pro bono) and he's whining because it's not no.1 out of 10 million on google like some other sites I've done. His attitude is 'I'll give you some money when the site makes money just get it to no. 1." What am I, a charity?

[gonzales]

welcome to the wonderful world of freelancing.

[ar]

Just add a few links for the site in other sites. That usually does the trick.






!GB! - PEACE -

[Seb Hughes]

People thinki this wanting site cheap , problely get people to make the sites for cheap and sell them to peole for much more than what they paid for it. 60 dollars...hahahah...........what can you get for that these very good preloader?

[mp.Designs]

Ya, it's annoying. I like work that I know I can get and do, and be payed for. I'm not so much bothered by the, "I need you to design a good site, code it into xhtml/css, and put a little php script in, with flash header" deal since I can do all that, well rounded. It is funny though, since not everyone is a Jack of all trades. And they have no concept of what work is worth...

[[uber]]

I saw that thread and did the math... makes no sense....people needs to realize that coding takes hours and if you make like at worst 50 bucks an hour... that might take 5 good hours of coding.... and you wanna get 5 hours of work at the price of one? this ain't wallmart or overstockactionscripters.com.. i'm no coder... but i know what time is worth...

[paddy.]

Technical Requirements:
Macromedia Flash and intensive knowledge of ActionScript
XHTML/CSS Hand-Coding, and Web standards
Javascript
Illustrator
Photoshop
PHP, ASP or .NET and database connectivity
OOP in Actionscript is a plus
XML is a plus
Must be capable of testing and debugging cross-platform and cross-browser.
*whistles*
D**n if I was that good I wouldn't need to work for your stinkin' company.
That's another thing that annoys me. What's the point of a company where everyone is a freelancer? Has no-one ever heard of teamwork?