White Slavery & Reparations

[telekinesis]

I did, nice bit of history. I don't like that African Americans started talking about wanting Reparations. I treat and view them as equals, but it's ridiculous that we owe them anything! Let's give the Hohokam Indians the White House while we are at it!

[telekinesis]

True, so very true, lets petition!

[jadedchron]

well if any of you were african-americans then it'd make more sense.

[lostinbeta]

Hrmm..... I view all races eqaul, and I have friends of all races. But I don't see how anyone should pay for what someones ancestors may or may not have had a part in. It isn't like anyone went back in time and told them to do it.

Makes no sense to me :-\

[upuaut]

I personaly doubt that this would make any more sense if I were an african american, displaced greatgrandchild of a slave.

I can say right now that I wont pay anything unless the bar is even across the board. ie, pay the indians for what we did to them, pay progeny of white slavery their due, etc. If you can create an even bar for all people, then I'll pay into reparations, but until that time you'll have to jail me if you want my cash.

I hate this issue. It's impossible to win as a white man. "We don't understand".. bull****, we understand the situation very clearly. WE are not responsible for anything other than being born to a family, the proponants of reparations want innocent people to pay for something because they were born of that color, or blood. That's ****ED UP. That is at least as ****ed up as slavery itself is, and it's possibly more ****ed up because someone who is sensitive to the freedom issue, should know better than to biggot themselves against people strictly because of skin color.

What about my family? My mother's parents were first gen imigrant poles, a people who have been brutalized for thousands of years by every culture that came stomping through their land, and one which never was known as being particularly pro slave. My father's heritage comes directly from a large family of people who worked tirelessly throughout the slave years to free african americans from bondage, and ship them up north where they might gain some protection.

...but in the end I'm a white man, and there are many proponants of reparations who would say that I should pay them for damages my race caused to them.. That's seriously deluded.

No this issue would make no more sense to me if I were Black. Perhaps if I were black and an idiot it might make sense, but that really is the only way. If you find that I've just insulted you, tough.. I'm allowed to be insulting to idiots.

[jadedchron]

lol big man on campus....

[lostinbeta]

My ancestry moved here from Germany but 2 (maybe 3) generations ago, and they did not own slaves.

[upuaut]

oh but you're German LIB?? You should probebly pay the Jewish people then..

hey it would make sense to you if you were Jewish. :P

[jadedchron]

you kinda missed the point genius but i'm glad you wasted a page and a half of time :rambo:

[lostinbeta]

Yeah, but I am also part American Indian.... so..... :-\

[upuaut]

jadedchron... I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny or insulting, I'm going to assume 'funny' unless you state otherwise.

I guess I would simply like to ask you the question that this thread asks: 'are you for, or against reparations, and why?' Rather than assume that a white man can't understand this issue, why not present an arguement and THEN judge if we understand the situation.

[Jubba]

I agree with David. Just because we (I) are (am) white does not mean that we do not understand the situation. I do not believe that people are just a product of their environment. I believe that people can release themselves from their situation at anytime. I don't feel that I should be held responsible for something that happened two hundred years ago to people who neither I, nor any of my relatives had any contact with. I am in the same boat as Lost, my relatives are fairly recent immigrants and lived in the North anyway, so we never owned slaves.

The older members of my family hold some prejudices because they lived in an era where that thinking was dominant, however I do not. I view every person as an equal individual. When I see three black guys hanging out at a bus-stop, I just see three guys hanging out at a bus stop. I don't walk to the other side of the street. To be completely honest, I have never once been harmed by an individual 'of color' in my entire life. Whenever something bad has happened to me, the face behind the action was white. I would have to say that if I discriminate against anyone, it would have to be white people in general.

I come from a racist area, and when I was growing up it hurt me to hear people use any type of racial slur, because I thought that humanity was moving past that. However, I came to the realization that there will always be ignorance, there will always be people who think they are above others....

Just because I am white does not mean that I don't understand. But truly, what would a reparation from our government actually mean? You get some money from the gov't, and that is supposed to make 200 years of slavery, hardship, and oppression just go away? The government will not be able to fix the social inequalities present in society, just overnight. This will be an on-going process and I doubt that I will see it resolved in my lifetime.

I am not Jewish either, but Jews have been persecuted for much longer than the Africans were enslaved, so does that mean that every country that ever once held prejudice against Jews should pay every Jewish man, woman and child a reparation? You can't say that its different because its not.

Yes African Americans deserve something. They deserve to live in a society that welcomes them. They deserve to be equal. They deserve to be able to climb the ladder and become rich and powerful. We live in a country where, in theory, everyone is equal; we just have to make everyone else see things this way too. I think that the only way to fix this, is to take all of the racist people, and ship them out. Because until racism and discrimination are abolished, there can be no equality.


Cheers,
Jubba

[Jubba]

Also Phil: I have to represent the Native American Indians however because it is my field of study. That article says that in the 17th- century the White Indentured slaves came over, and "were America's first slaves."

Thats not entirely true. A more accurate statement would be "Britain's first slaves in America" and even that is false to an extent.

While Native American Indians were not enslaved on a massive scale, they were enslaved. The numbers are somewhere in the 100,000s, and this began in the early 1500s with the Spanish and it started in Mexico. In the late 1500s the Spanish had expanded north into what is now New Mexico and began to set up missions to convert the Peublo people. The missions actually turned into an 'indentured servitude.'

Also, on the subject of Indians and slavery, don't forget that different Nations of Indians enslaved rival tribes. The Apache and Navajo often raided the Pueblo and took captives. In fact, one of the major factors of Native American war was the taking of captives, as either slaves, or as a revenge element (torture).

Another point I would like to argue: The amount of African slaves that were brought here, to the United states, is not even one-tenth of the amount that was brought into South America. And less that one-third the amount of people that were shipped to the Caribbean. Just an interesting point because I'm sure that the countries of South America and Latin America are not considering paying reparations to the decendents of those slaves. And thats a little unfair for the African Americans that live in the United States to get paid just because their ancestors just happened to be brought here instead of there.

Another point: What is with this whole African American thing? We are Americans. We were born in America. I'm not saying to forget our roots, but I don't call myself a German American. My roommate does not call himself a Ukrainian American. Hell, even my friend whose parents immigrated from India calls himself American and he's only the 1st generation born here. I'm only 3rd generation, and most African Americans around here have to be at least 6th or 7th generation decendants.

Ok sorry for the rant. I have to go to class now. I'm sure I'll have more later.

[upuaut]

Let us also not forget the African slave ship which crash landed on the beaches of the Gulf of Mexico in the 1400's. Oh yeah.. that was Africans enslaving their own kind so I suppose they shouldn't have to pay their own people anything.

One thing you mention Jubba.. shipping out all racists. I realize that you're using sarcasm as a humor inducer, but just as I must support equal rights in America, so too must I support freedom of speach, and freedom of beliefs. Racists DO have a right to be here, just like everyone else. The rest of us have every right not to like them, but we can't just ship them all off continent.

The answer is education, and it's a slow tedious process. Unfortunately it's the only process that is ethicaly correct. We the people, just need to keep driving the point home. Eventually the bigots will either jump ship themselves, or they will join the cause.

PS - I agree with what you said before about all injustices in your life have been perpetrated by white men. That is pretty much the case with me as well. There was one occation when I got punched in the nose by a rather large 10th grader (he towered over me by at least 4 inches, and I was 25) but in that case, I didn't really blame him. One of my 'friends' had given him the middle finger. :P

[Jubba]

Yes my sarcasm in that remark was the key. Education is the answer, however I believe that a certain amount of ignorance will always ring through. I'm off to chain myself to a desk in the library and Im not leavin until I understand CALCULUS!!

Peace!
Cheers,
Jubba:elderly:

[jadedchron]

you can be funny and insulting at the same time u know.

[lostinbeta]

Ermmm..... the people who would be insulted are racists. And racists can be insulting to many more people than a simple sarcastic quote about racists would be.

In my opinion of course.

[Jubba]

Originally posted by jadedchron
you can be funny and insulting at the same time u know.

I failed to see any humor in your statement. David was merely stating his ideas. We (Phil, David, and myself) often get very longwinded when we type out our responses because we have many ideas and we like to include everything in our posts. This is the random section and you are free to talk about anything, and most of us use this section of Kirupa's forums as a general discussion about anything. The topic in this thread happens to be slavery (started out as white slavery) and we are sharing our ideas. Comments and remarks such as yours really aren't necessary if they don't contribute to the discussion. No offense meant, just merely stating my opinion. There is no reason to be insulting to David just because he expressed his ideas in a particularly verbose manner, or just because he expressed his ideas at all. They are his ideas and he should be respected for them.

Back to topic: Yes David, education is the key to all of this, but as I said, it will be a long tedious process and I still feel that it won't cure the ignorance that plagues our country. I also believe in the freedom of speech and the freedom of expression and all of the other freedom that this country grants us. I do not agree with the actions of ignorant people.

My case: A guy (boy) I work with drives a pick-up truck. This summer he had the Confederate Flag painted on the hood. I see that flag as a symbol of oppression and hatred. He saw it as a sign of rebellion. That was his interpretation of its meaning. But there is so much more to that flag than just rebellion and he had and still does not have any idea of the power that its symbolism carries. He also harbors some very sick racist ideas. Oh, well... to misquote: "Ignorance is bliss..."


cheers,
jubs

[jadedchron]

yeah it's a talk section and i figure if someone is going to be smart they should probably condense it into 2 sentences instead of 80

[Jubba]

Whats the difference if they convey their thoughts in 5 lines or 105 lines? If it is too much for you then don't read it. I actually like reading David's posts. Personally I find him to be a very intelligent individual with many good ideas and a firm base in reality. Unlike many people in this world (especially those people who live in my hometown) his head is not in the clouds or up his ***.

[jadedchron]

i never said he wasn't intelligent. i really don't see how it could be too much... possibly you can explain the intellect behind that wonder. i just figure if you're going to make a statement why not make it short? who wants to read 8 page documents on an opinion they have? if someone does they probably need something better to do eh

[reverendflash]

Originally posted by jadedchron
yeah it's a talk section and i figure if someone is going to be smart they should probably condense it into 2 sentences instead of 80

Let me get this straight... you are saying that smart people don't need to be eloquent? Or are you saying that any intelligent person can sum up his thoughts in 2 lines? Or are you saying that any eloquent person is studpid?

Rev:elderly:

[Jubba]

He was merely stating his opinion and then backing it up. He was giving evidence on why he should not have to pay for reparations. Thats just the way David is. He is a very verbose individual. Check out some of our posts at the corpusT forums...

go here and scroll down a bit:

http://pub83.ezboard.com/fcorpustforumsfrm6.showMessageRange?topicID=1.topi c&start=1&stop=20

[jadedchron]

i'm saying KISS. keep it simple stupid. you don't need to be "eloquent" to be smart. infact most people who write in depth lenghy essays are just talking out of their *** in the end. something learned in college.

[reverendflash]

Be careful being that judgemental.

One thing life will teach you which college can't, is that stereotypes are not productive. Just because a person speaks in a different style than you is not a reason to assume he is not intelligent.

Funny, that is kinda back on topic=)

Rev:elderly:

[Jubba]

I see you learned a lot there. :P Actually I'm just kidding. I'm not trying to be insulting. You were born in 82, so you're either a sophmore or a junior right? Where exactly do you go to school? or did you graduate early? I go to Binghamton University. I'm currently in the process of getting my *** kicked by Calculus. There is just something about it that i can't quite grasp.

When I write a paper, I don't talk out of my ***. I write only what needs to be written and I don't bs anything. If the professor does not like that then they can deduct points. I have not had a professor once take points off of my paper just because it was less than the required length, because they are still good papers and they get the point across. If I can explain something in 10 pages then why do I have to write 25? I understand your point. But maybe we feel that we need to type this much to completely convey our ideas...

[jadedchron]

actually 'reverend' it's not being judgemental it's a fact. is someone smarter because they can write more? or are they smarter because they can take what some goober said and condense it into something that doesn't waste a readers time. ask any professor if he'd rather read a 10 page paper or a 2 page paper that were both typically right. i only have so much stuff to allocate into my memory and i don't want something else to be pushed out by an 80 page paper.

[reverendflash]

First, I feel that anyone who begins to take personal attacks when none was given, is a person who has run out of intelligent arguments. No one here has used your handle in quotes, you became personal at that point.

Second, the world is not read by college professors. While they may be the most intelligent person you have met, a fair amount of college professors haven't had a job in the private sector in years. I deal with clients in the real world, every day. They sometimes take a while to get their point across. Does this make them stupid? No, not at all. The real world is not a term paper.

Maybe if you spent a little more time composing your thoughts we wouldn't need to have this conversation. Sorry you feel you don't have the time, your 20's should be the best times of your life... =)

Peace, I mean no harm,

Rev:elderly:

[jadedchron]

well in any case you should've learned that what you feel is right isn't always a fact... and a term paper is metaphorically speaking and coincides with the professor statements. finally it may not make them stupid but they're obviously not as intelligent as someone who can get the point across quick.

thanks for the 20's reference. i'm assuming you're 30+. you should know it's not always age that is the defining factor in intelligence. and i used 'reverend' to point out i was replying to your ignorance rather than jubbas

[lostinbeta]

So what you are saying is that if people like to back up their opinions with facts and other views, but do it in a longer statement as to not leave anything out, that they are less intelligent then anyone who can sum up their beliefs in 2 sentences and leave out all the important things, but still get the point across?

BTW: I believe 'reverend' is an ordained reverend, so he is not being ignorant to the status.

[jadedchron]

i don't believe i said that in my posts. however i must congratulate you on putting words in my mouth

[lostinbeta]

finally it may not make them stupid but they're obviously not as intelligent as someone who can get the point across quick.

I did not put any words in your mouth.

And if you were referring to my reverend phrase, that was an assumption of what you mean according to the context of which you used the word. I apologize if I misunderstood.

[jadedchron]

you took a statement of your own.. threw in some parts i said and then added your own at the end.. that's what we call putting words in ones mouth

[reverendflash]

I noticed you only used quotes in the beginning of my handle, instead of 'Rev' as I sign all of my posts. Nice try, you were called on something, admit it like an intelligent person (you also attacked David in an earlier post, but he can defend himself).

I also noticed you still haven't posted a substantial source for your statement, other than professors. Show me where it is written, if you submit a report for your job, you get more points for a smaller report. I don't think your theory will hold water anywhere but the college campus.

I also said nothing demeaning about being in your 20's. I just remember having more time to do fun things rather than argue a point such as this, during that period of my life.

My point, since you have seemed to gloss right over it, is that being verbose and being intelligent are not mutually exclusive.

Rev:elderly:

[lostinbeta]

I took a direct quote from you saying that people who need to take longer to make their point are less intelligent.

And I edited my last post if this argument was about the reverend thing.

[jadedchron]

2 for 1 sale on the moron pills i see. it's common sense that a "smarter" person would write something short, concise, and to the point. reasoning? a smart person would know not to waste his time adding extra points here and there. secondly you seem stuck on metaphors. thirdly i've never heard someone get offended by calling them their full [nick]name. uhmm also putting people in place using facts is always fun.. whether you're 30 or 80. you can continue to battle on all you want. you can't really defeat common sense tho :(

david writes a 20 page paper about the Earth's orbit
einstein writes a 10 page paper about the Earth's orbit.

both are correct papers.. and both prove the same points. hrmm gee i wonder who is a wee bit more intelligent.

[lostinbeta]

Correct that it is quality over content, but if you can add more content to your paper without making it BS, why not add more? More information increases the quality of a paper am I right?

You can get a point across, or you can get a point across and back up your point with facts, views, and varying opinions.

Putting more thought into your point is more intelligent then blurting out your point in a few sentences and leaving it at that.

Common says sense that more information is better. It isn't just the point, it is the information that backs up your point as well.

[Jubba]

CONCLUSION:

SLAVERY IS BAD


END THREAD

[jadedchron]

lol you're not the sharpest tool in the shed

[lostinbeta]

Sharper than you :-\

In my opinion.... just as you telling me I am a moron and not the sharpest tool in the shed is your opinion.

Apparently if you must judge people and call them stupid to defend your point, that shows a lot..........


I agree with Jubba. Subject strayed.....


People + Enslaved = Bad

End of point, end of thread, end of discussion.

[jadedchron]

yet again your opinion. which has little of interest to me. fact vs opinion hrmm. you must be one of those dudes who likes someone that says "Hi, how are you doing?" instead of someone who just says 'sup'. it just blows my mind how ignorant some people are. sure the topic is strayed but that's what the good ol talk section is for.. talkin!

[lostinbeta]

Well it is kind of hypocritical when you can say my opinion means very little to you, but you state your opinion by callin me a moron and such, and stating that "it's common sense that a "smarter" person would write something short" (yes that is an opinion).

Yes, I am one of those dudes that say "Hi, How are you?" instead of "sup". That is because I was raised to respect the people around me. And speaking in slang is considered disrespectful to many people. Last I checked "sup" isn't even a real word :-\

[jadedchron]

well i guess you were raised to waste people's time as well. it's not only the fact that they are smarter it's the fact that they are considerate to the audience/reader to not add misc. info. there's a difference between backing up your theory and adding sub levels of content that are already sub levels themselves. in any account if sir david would keep on writing "verbose" posts it'd take a reader 30 minutes just to know where the post stands and people's view points. and duly note that i've stated opinions w/facts as where you simply reply with statements that imply i wasn't raised right.

[reverendflash]

jadedchron:

Your use of a portion of my handle, and not the nickname I sign every post with, is a direct sign of disrespect, and judging by the short tone in your posts, I took offense. Imagine I started a post with "actually 'Jade'" ? My appologies for being defensive.


Originally posted by jadedchron
..."david writes a 20 page paper about the Earth's orbit
einstein writes a 10 page paper about the Earth's orbit.

both are correct papers.. and both prove the same points. hrmm gee i wonder who is a wee bit more intelligent. "

Okay, same example:

Einstein writes a 10 page paper about the Earth's orbit. Hawking writes a 20 page paper about the same Earth's orbit.

Who is more intelligent? Quantifying intelligence makes it subjective. How do you rate intelligence. Is the IQ test an accurate gauge? If so, which IQ test, and administered by whom?

One more time, in real world terms, show me just one example of someone moving up in a company because his reports are shorter and more to the point, and I will admit your point.

Your examples are extremes. College campus is a small part of society, and the Einstein analogy is an extreme value judgement. You don't cite any fact that Einstien worked succinctly, you only cite that Einstein is more intelligent than David.

Rev:elderly:

[telekinesis]

jadedchron, so why the hell are you in this forum, all you are doing is being an ******* to all the moderators. We can ban you if you like, you obviously didn't come here to learn flash!

[lostinbeta]

I apologize for the raising part. I admit that was an implication not purposely stated by me. I just simply wrote the statement wrong.

If you don't feel like reading verbose posts, then don't read them. No one is forcing you to.

Also, you backed up none of your opinions with facts. The one fact you have is that your college professor told you something.

I don't like wasting peoples time, and I don't like wasting my time...

To get my point across in as few words as possible (so I can be a genius too)....

This thread is over with. I will see you around.

[telekinesis]

I don't like this 'jadedchron' very much, I don't think you will have to worry about seeing him around. It seems the only reason he came here is to be inane and cause disturbance amongst the forum!

[lostinbeta]

I have noticed almost all his posts were negative opinions on a subject.

Granted everyone is entitled to an opinion. Jadedchron tends to be harsh on how he expresses his opinions which causes arguments because it offends people.

Like if someone told me they didn't like what I did, fine, I will live. If they tell me it sucks and I should never design again, I will take offense. This is a fake senario of course, but it gets the point across :)

[jadedchron]

first off dan.. let's think about your post jr. i didn't come here to learn flash.. hrmm first this is a talk section on a forum. secondly i must've just stumbled upon this forum by some cosmic force. and if you take a moment before you start spamming your loose ideas you'll note that this is probably the only post in a non-flash section.

next up to bat we have revvy rev rev with his thesaurus book out. someone who writes something that is shorter, concise, and still proves the main theory/topic NOT only is more intelligent for not wasting their own time on adding more words but they're more considerate to the audience.

and finally lostinbeta i am not forced to read verbose posts... of course not. but you are not forced to reply to these posts or even care what i think. the only negativity that came out of it was someone taking offense and writing 400 words about it.

[lostinbeta]

You are correct, I am not required to respond.

But I tend to fight for my beliefs, even if it drags out beyond belief. Even though I ended this thread, I felt the need to continue it when you personally attacked me calling me a moron and saying I am not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[jadedchron]

well true but some people just need a kick in teh face to see things the right way

[lostinbeta]

So can I kick you in the face? :P (just kidding...haha, but I couldn't resist)

[telekinesis]

So, how hard do you want me to kick you?

[EDIT]: Grrr....lost, you posted first!

[telekinesis]

So what's the 'right way' or should I say the 'jadedchron way'?

[jadedchron]

i see you kinda changed the subject there ol danny. and 2 similar posts with the same results.. welcome to 3rd grade :P on any account my first post that spawned this was simply that it'd make more sense if you were african-american only in the fact that you'd be in their shoes and possibly see a different standpoint. tie me up and throw me in a jail cause i've committed a crime!

danny i wouldn't start blabbin now..

"There is nothing
more frightful than ignorance in action." -Johann von Goethe

[reverendflash]

Originally posted by jadedchron
"someone who writes something that is shorter, concise, and still proves the main theory/topic NOT only is more intelligent for not wasting their own time on adding more words but they're more considerate to the audience. "

One more time... Show me the source of the basis of your "fact," and I will admit I am wrong. Your entire statement is subjective, therefore not able to be proven.

BTW, way to pick your battles.

Rev:elderly:

[lostinbeta]

About the first post that started this...

I asked my African American friends and they said they disagreed with it too. So :-\........ Even though that is just them, they still count for something.

[telekinesis]

So I am at a 3rd grade level huh, I am giving you 5 minutes to change that or your banned. Have a nice day! If you haven't noticed, I don't take crap from skill lacking bastards like yourself!

[jadedchron]

good job revvy i'm glad you're still talkin. beta i don't disagree either. the germans should be payin the jews if that were the case.

[jadedchron]

well i'm sorry my life doesn't revolve around the msgboard. and i don't believe you have any basis of my skill jr. and yes cliche responses are at a 3rd grade level

[lostinbeta]

If that was the case I don't know what I would do.... german, american indian... would I have to pay, then get paid....??? LOL

You still have yet to prove what rev said.

And we just posted at the same time. It is coincidence. Not 3rd grade.

[telekinesis]

Skill level, how can you even be rated, I didn't know they could even rate levels below zero?

Oh, by the way, good bye!

[jadedchron]

yeah no kidding beta. i'm sure they do have some valid points in their arguments as to why they should be paid tho. in my opinion they shouldn't. although it does suck.

[jadedchron]

lol dan you're the dumbest dude i've met on here so far...lol

[telekinesis]

Who is the dumb one now, or should I say banned one!

[lostinbeta]

Opinion again.....

Dan just doesn't take well to offensive remarks made against him. Understandable.

[Jadedchron2]

you're right banning me from learning flash on the forums.. good way to prove your point son

[telekinesis]

Banning him actually felt good, I have a smile on my face after ridding this place of his pointless debates and criticism!

[EDIT]: Look like I have to do it again. I told you to take back your comment. This is our place to moderate and if you get on our bad side then that's going to be your problem. Do you want one more chance. I always believe in second chances?

[Jadedchron2]

you've shown me the power you possess oh mighty dan..lol. i'll continue reading the forum and replying with help. this is a talk section. so opinions are valid. something for you to chew on

[telekinesis]

Read my post again, do you want a second chance or do you want your IP banned? I just banned that user name, you can always get your old name back if you want, but until you stop being a criticism obsessed prick then it's not going to happen!

[lostinbeta]

Yes opinions are welcome....

Directly offensive remarks to any person is not tolerated though.

If you express an opinion, you should be prepared to argue it, because there is always someone with a varying opinion that is willing to challenge it.

Arguing it back does not involve insulting people.

[jadedchron3]

what's there to read? couldn't read it anyway since you banned it remember? i can help alot of people on this board and i've already started to do so. you can continue to prove my point and ban my IP if you want due to the fact that you don't like opinions. and being cool and editing my posts.. why not just delete the ones that were made offensive? hmm

[telekinesis]

lostinbeta explained my point! So do you want a second chance or should I do the final banning. Truthfully, I don't want to ban you over a stupid thing, but if you seem to be a persistant annoyance and don't want a second chance then like I said, this can be done the hard way. You can have you old username unbanned if you agree...so what is your choice? I will delete this entire thread after you decide on what you want to do.

[telekinesis]

Guess not....:q:

[jadedchron3]

i was busy. anyway i would recommend deleting this entire thread whether u unban me or not.

[telekinesis]

I said that you won't be banned if you tell me you want a second chance, and yes this thread will be deleted within the hour! SO do you want your old username back, it seems that you want to stay at these forums. We may not get along, but I am one of 2 thousand members, others may not mind the criticism. I can forgive, but I won't forget. So I better not see you battling me or the other moderators again!

[kirupa]

I have to agree with many of the views here. I don't think reparations is a logical step toward healing past wounds. If anything, reparations probably benefit those that go through life thinking *others* owe them for their own inadequacies as fulfilling members of society. I am Indian. My family was enslaved by the British a generation earlier. I am not going to ask for reparations or anything similar to that resort from the British.

Society was different in the early American history. EVERY race of people in this world dating back to early history has been oppressed by another group of people. I don't think we need a billion lawsuits to represent the billions of races throughout history who were oppressed. I believe it is time for people to move on and quit wallowing in the past. Is it slavery that Today causes more than 50% of african-marriages to fail? Was it slavery that prevents African-Americans today from moving up the socioeconomic ladder that many have climbed through hard work and perseverance? It is time to move on with our lives and try to make the future better for everyone.

On another note, this forum is here for people to share ideas and post comments. There is absolutely no need to ridicule someone's remarks or find faults with someone's logic when one's OWN logic is not proven or lacks any depth or content. I don't tolerate personal attacks, and I wouldn't mind banning whoever continues to take swipes at someone's writing. Criticize the content, criticize the opinions presented; don't criticize the style of writing or the length of the responses.

Cheers!
Kirupa :cowboy:

[telekinesis]

Well said by the beholder of it all!

[reverendflash]

On Thread:

How do I ask God for my "emmaculate reparation."

:P

I mean, he did force Adam & Eve out of the garden, right? The world's first refuges... :P


Rev:elderly:

[Jubba]

Kirupa: Well put. :)

PJ: Well put. :)

Jubba: Well put. :)

Rev: Well put. :)

Dan: That 'Red Virus' thing is too phat! :)

Lost: AHHHHHHHHH!

Dave: Its not one pancake, its 47!

I need to stop eating so much crap....I'm getting fat...well not really, but tonight I ate a 12 in chicken parm sub, half of a large pizza, 15 wings, and 4 Zeppolies (fried dough). I'm going to need to run around the planet to work off all the crap that i ate tonight...oh well....time for bed...need to wake up early (6 am) to go to the gym...

Cheers,
Jubs :cool:

[Jubba]

REV! the background of your site is not defined! Its coming up as a light blue for me, and it looks horrible! Just lettin you know...I think i told you this before...:) :P

[lostinbeta]

Hey Jubba... I am curious... why did you scream when it came to my name?...lol. I am unsure about that.

[reverendflash]

Can't I just write a letter to the Pope? =) At least then I can get a signed confirmation that He got the demand. Finding a lawyer to sue God is not a problem. :P

The only problem I see... is what do I ask for?

I know, underwear with those tiles from the space shuttle in just the right places... :P

Jubba: thanks for reminding me, I am so lazy about my own site...
it should be changed now...

Rev:elderly:

[reverendflash]

At one time, Bill Simon (currently running for Rep. Gov. CA) said on the 700 Club that God told him to run for Governer... :x

Of course he denies this, but I have seen the video with my own eyes from a local news station.

Maybe I should just write him, since he seems to have the ear of God... =)

<i>note: I mean no disrepect to any religeon, I'm just blowing off a little of the "day before election day" adverts...</i>

Rev:elderly:

[lostinbeta]

Can someone please tell me why Jubba screamed when he mentioned my name in the list of replies to everyone?...lol

[telekinesis]

I think its about your post count :P

[lostinbeta]

I am going to try and celebrate at 4000 :) Since I have yet to celebrate anything about my post count.

[reverendflash]

I know how you feel... My spiritual side definitely does not meld with the Vatican... =) I like it that way... :)

I poke fun at organized religeon the same way I poke fun at organized crime.... from a distance... :P

pass the gravy!

Rev:elderly:

[reverendflash]

nuthin' feels like luvin' like a big warm bowl of gravy...

May I never be the one without it on Christmas... :)

Rev:elderly:

[lostinbeta]

--- want me

Twice on the pipe---- if the answer is nooooooo.

Sorry , I couldn't resist :)

[lostinbeta]

lol, then what are the words :q:

[lostinbeta]

I said 'want me' :(

Is it because I continued with it and gave you more than 2 words :q: :-\

[lostinbeta]

LOL, thanks :)

[Jubba]

Originally posted by lostinbeta
Hey Jubba... I am curious... why did you scream when it came to my name?...lol. I am unsure about that.

AHHHHHHHHHH!! I have no idea. Last night I was really active. For some reason I had far too much energy....and I just felt like typing that for your name....no real reason behind it...lol...just one of those things I do. :P

[Jubba]

:P :P :P

woah---- :ninja:

[upuaut]

boy, I had completely failed to realize exactly how much text my post had created.

Originaly when I read this I wasn't even going to bother with another posting, but I do so often change my mind about such things that it's not any skin off my *** to reply to trolls at least every once in a while. Perhaps I'm wrong. . he's certainly more entertaining than most, but not very much brighter, in my opinion.

To answer the question: why are dave's posts so damn long?

It has been theorized that intelligent people write shorter posts, while less intelligent people write longer posts. I do not think that the logic holds water though for a number of reasons which I'll hope to explain in as few a words as I think are necessary for my audience.
This is the crux of my arguement on this matter. 'for the audience'. Now, I've been around a long time at Kirupa. At least as long as anyone else in this thread. I think that I have a pretty good idea of what it takes to converse with the average Kirupian. I'm not talking about any of our old timers here, and I'm not implying that anyone here is stupid and therefore needs more information in order to understand a subject. Anyone who does know me though, knows that I catter to the lowest possible denomonator. Not the lowest common denominator. It is so that everyone can understand what I'm saying, and hopefuly learn something from it.

It has been theorized that people who write long posts are typicaly regurgitating past material, and too much of it. And that this is typicaly a trait of college educated individuals. I tend to agree with that. Alas in my case I am not a college graduate, or attendie (hence my terrible spelling.. you think I'd get through year one writing like this?) Likewise, I would say that this is only a general trend and obviously our friend has been hanging out with the wrong college goers. There are plenty of colleges which DO teach people something other than the ability to rehash something read, or heard somewhere else.

To bring a point across to an individual using very few words, but while still being convincing is indeed a great art, but ultimately we are not talking about an individual, we are talking about people from all over the world, with varying levels of understanding with regard to Engish specificaly, and the opinions of the average American to a degree.

My job is not to please anyone with my posts, and I do not have a problem with people who wish to simply skip over anything that I write. That's your loss or gain, depending upon what you get out of reading this forum.

What jadedchron may have felt is very understandable. I know that there are a lot of people out there who A) have problems with my opinions, B) have problems with the manner in which I present them, and C) dislike me stating opinion as a fact.

A) don't read them. Just skip over entirely. I have a right to my opinon, same as you.
B) As I've eplained above, I'm not cattering to you, but I am cattering to some.
and C) tough. Fact IS opinion that has not been disproven. (and that's a subject for another thread)

The majority of the people here do not complain about my writing, so that's who gets my love jaded one, I'm sorry that it seems like a waist of your time. Only an idiot would waist his own time reading a post that's too long for him to handle. Furthermore, only a complete and utter moron would force the issue so that 40 posts get created which are unrelated to the topic at hand, namely reparations. That is the act of a troll.. and so I dub the "jadedTroll". Enjoy the honor.

I'll end this by just pointing out one or two inconstencies, and to drag out my words just a little more. (cause if he reads this I want to bug him some more).

I was accused of writing a page and a half of material. I don't know what other people set thier CP settings at, but I read 20 posts per page. That comes out to 3 pages total, and all of my posts are on page one. That would imply that jadedTroll has his setting at 20 LINES per page. Another indication of something, to be sure.

I was accused of putting a lot of substrands of opinion in the post when they were not necessary. I reread it a couple of times and I really don't find that to be true. Lets take a look, because it's relivant. (and it will make this post even longer.. MUHAHAHAHAHA)

Here's my post which is called 'a page and a half of time'. (keep in mind, I'm not sure what measurement he's using. A page and a half, or a temporal one.. but hey, I'm game)


I personaly doubt that this would make any more sense if I were an african american, displaced greatgrandchild of a slave. Here it should be obvious what I'm doing. It's middle school english at best. State what your opinion is going to be.


I can say right now that I wont pay anything unless the bar is even across the board. ie, pay the indians for what we did to them, pay progeny of white slavery their due, etc. If you can create an even bar for all people, then I'll pay into reparations, but until that time you'll have to jail me if you want my cash. Here I state why I have the opinion. Technicaly this should have been in the first paragraph, not one of it's own. If anyone thinks that's college based work, you're sorely mistaken.


I hate this issue. It's impossible to win as a white man. "We don't understand".. bull****, we understand the situation very clearly. WE are not responsible for anything other than being born to a family, the proponants of reparations want innocent people to pay for something because they were born of that color, or blood. That's ****ED UP. That is at least as ****ed up as slavery itself is, and it's possibly more ****ed up because someone who is sensitive to the freedom issue, should know better than to biggot themselves against people strictly because of skin color.
This paragraph is actually pretty good. It is it's own idea, and it starts with a sentence that explains what the point of this paragraph is, then I lead again into why I have that opinion.


What about my family? My mother's parents were first gen imigrant poles, a people who have been brutalized for thousands of years by every culture that came stomping through their land, and one which never was known as being particularly pro slave. My father's heritage comes directly from a large family of people who worked tirelessly throughout the slave years to free african americans from bondage, and ship them up north where they might gain some protection. This in and of itself is a sub issue. But it's point in this particular post should be obvious. It is taking the same logic which applies to an slave decendent and applies the same logic to the same situation with a white person. I will grant you that I could have left this entirely out. Phil's point by making this post was to show the obsurdity of the reparations with exactly the same type of statement. Eh.. you can't win em all. Like I said, I'm not genius.


...but in the end I'm a white man, and there are many proponants of reparations who would say that I should pay them for damages my race caused to them.. That's seriously deluded.

No this issue would make no more sense to me if I were Black. Perhaps if I were black and an idiot it might make sense, but that really is the only way. If you find that I've just insulted you, tough.. I'm allowed to be insulting to idiots.

Again, This really should have been one paragraph. As the concluding paragraph it does what it is supposed to. It recaps the opinion and in less words, the general arguement of the post. I probebly could have left out the last sentence. It's meant entirely to tell people that I THINK YOU"RE AN IDIOT, if you agree with reparations. And I do, so I really don't mind all that much that it's there.

So you can see that I really only have one semi sub related subject, and that only takes up a couple of sentences. It is far from the portrayal of a huge megalith of time, or pages waisted, as our dear jadedTroll would have you believe.

Now this post on the other hand, is WAAAAAAYYYYYYY out of control.

In case anyone does wonder. A polite statement of desire for me to keep my posts limited in size is not likely to work, but it certainly wont get you banned. Politness is not required of people in life, but in small private forums like this one it may be required of any of us. I, am almost always polite. I expect only the same.. for people to be ALMOST always polite. Do that and I will help you do anything with Flash.

PS- I have a real feeling that we just got a visit from our friend Maddox. I don't know.. maybe just parania.. but a lot of people hit his sight from here. I'd say that it's pretty likely that he has visited. I had already decided that Maddox would probebly hate me beyond reason if we ever talked. Maddox is very short and to the point, also he's likely to take any opinion on the subject at hand. It's impossible to tell exactly what he will say next.
It is sad though. I really enjoy the Jaded more than most of you humans. I myself am a very jaded person, I just tend to cover it up with a lot of hoopla, which people like our friend jadedTroll obviously doesn't care for.

Hey jaded one, for what it's worth, I wasn't even elluding to the idea that you could not be insulting and funny at the same time. Nor was I saying that you could not be. I do agree with the banning though. AFTER that point you took some specific shots which even I, the woose Mod here might have banned you for. If it is you Maddox, keep up the good work on your page, and shut the **** up while in here. This is not your little pissing ground.

Well... even for a post where I'm trying to make a point by making it really really long, just to show how long long can really be.. this is really really too long. I'll shut up now.

[upuaut]

lol.. well this last post was FULL of everything that he complained about. Hopefuly it made my point. Anything can be writen at any length, and he was quite correct that perhaps for him, the post was too long. Sadly he forgot that I am not posting to him, but to others. And of their capacity, or desires, he is willfuly ignorant.

The lesson is clear. I could have been a lot more long winded and said even less in my post.

Peace brother dictator.

[upuaut]

oh.. "who's Maddox". A few weeks back Edwin posted a link to a site. The site was designed to allow a guy named Maddox to critique the world with his own particular flavor of nilism. As I said before, I really enjoyed his site. I don't want him here on this site though. There is little place for someone who wishes to be that rude to everyone and everything, here in this social forum. :)

[lostinbeta]

http://maddox.xmission.com/ <--- maddox

Hilarious site....

But he is an ******* all around.

That doesn't mean I can't laugh at him though, what he says is hilarious in many ways.

[upuaut]

absolutely. I had hoped that the point to his web site was the age old point. "If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at." He insulted more things that I enjoy than anything else I've read, and I enjoyed every minute of the insult.

[upuaut]

Ok.. now that we have the Troll out of the way, we should really get back to the conversation. A Troll's goal, willful or no is to disrupt communication.

In another thread Phil Dan and LIB are discussing the questions of why it matters that we actually know who got here first, and why we use a single image, Columbus as a symbol of discovery.

This is all regurgitation mind you. :)

I have mentioned a couple of times a book that I've read, which in turn has led me to pick up many other source texts. A lot can be found on the internet, but you have to work for it. :) The book itself though is not a tough read and is availiable at amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684818868/qid=1036653838/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-0467461-4851260?v=glance&s=books

It covers the subject from a sociologist's pov. I recomend it to everyone, but for you Phil, it's a must read. I know you, and I know you'll go out in search of every single one of his reference materials.

"Lies...", details the idea of 'Heroification' (sp?); basicaly the idea that we need hero images in our lives due to how we have developed over the years. This is reflected in a many places in history, and pretty easy to see once the source data is presented.

The hilarious thing really is, when we find data that doesn't support the squeekie clean image of someone like Columbus. He was a drunkard, and ran his ship with an iron fist. I think some of the crew thought he was nuts or something like that. Mutany certainly was presented in my history classes, but it was played down.

Another interesting tid bit that the book related which I find infinitely more fascinating than who came here first, is the account of the American Native showing up in Britain Years earlier in a "dug-out". Now THAT is an impressive feat.

So why is it important to know? I agree with some of the statements in the other thread. It's important because history is the ONLY teacher we have. The only real teacher. It is full of mistakes, catastraphy, evil. History teaches us the real truths of the Universe.

[lostinbeta]

NUH UH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





















LOL, just messin with you david. Good speech :)


I shall go die in my room now.......................................

[Kitiara]

Being a Brit, I haven't heard of this whole reparations thing, and the company firewall won't let me view the original link, so forgive me as I'm kinda flying blind here.

Over here, we've got a lot of problems around this issue. To start with, the Government of today would rather like us to completely forget the British Empire of 100 or so years ago. This was a time when the UK ruled a large majority of the world, but we are not taught about it it schools, or encouraged to feel good about it. Instead we're told by the PC brigade that we were bad people, enslaving and forcing our rule and laws upon these countries. It's like we're trying to erase this period from history.

We've also had a few statements that the police force are inherrantly rascist, because of the number of non-whites that get randomly stopped and searched. Well guess what? Those forces are operating in non-white areas, so there is going to be a greater ratio there. You get criminals of all races, we can all be loopy.

Plus there's the whole immigrant issue. If you read the papers you could be forgiven for thinking that the vast majority of this country hates all forms of immigration. We don't. I think what people tend to get irritated about are the ones that trek across several countries just to get to Britain because we're a soft touch, then sneak in illegally and disappear...

I dunno, it's complicated I guess.

[Jubba]

I'm so mad, I'm going to toss my neighbor's cat through the window. Maddox

sorry I took the link again and I started reading and i thought this was the funniest thing I have ever read...

I have already stated my ideas about slavery and such...

[lostinbeta]

That is a funny quote Jubba... brutal... but funny.

But what is funnier was in my last post I posted that I shall go die in my room now.... when I really meant I shall go <B>lie</B> in my room now...lol.

[reverendflash]

they decided to install a new type of cross-walk light next to the City Hall/Civic Center area. These new lights are bigger, brighter, and have a 15 second countdown to the orange hand.

My point to this pointless story is that I wonder how long it will take someone to sue the City for adding undue stress to their street crossings... I mean here you are, 1/4 of the way across a large busy street, when you look up and the sign says you have 10 seconds left to reach the other side... OMG the stress! :P

I don't know why I had to tell that story, but I guess it kinda is the same as reparations... too litigeous...

Rev:elderly:

[reverendflash]

Phil:

Cities are fine... it's the politicians in the cities which suck...=)

Rev:elderly:

[reverendflash]

sorry Phil:

This is one area we will have to agree to disagree...

I was raised in the country, and now live in the City...

I gotta love the City... :P :P :P

I just spent 2 hrs watching a local band, that just rocked... they won't make it big (more than likely), but they rocked...

I love SF.... =) =) =)

to each his own... :P

Rev:elderly:

[lostinbeta]

I hate the city, I was born and raised in it.

The city isn't for everyone though. I much prefer the peace and tranquility of the wilderness. I would love to live in a cabin in the middle of the woods or something.

[reverendflash]

I camp in the woods...

I <i><b>live</i></b> in the City...

:P :P :P

I love the City...

Rev:elderly:

[lostinbeta]

I camp in the woods as well.... and <B><I>hate</I></B> living in the city.

LOL.

[reverendflash]

have you ever been to SF?

Rev:elderly:

[lostinbeta]

Nope.

[reverendflash]

If you love music, or food, you gotta come out to SF...

It's like New Orleans, but they tell you to go home (NOLA is 24 hrs)...

=) =) =)

Rev

[lostinbeta]

Music = good

I am a picky eater...lol.

[reverendflash]

In this town, you can't be too picky...

We have everything here... name one, we have it... probably a couple :P :P ...

you gots a place to stay (it's expensive as crap here)...

Rev:elderly:

[lostinbeta]

I bet it is expensive there. One thing I wouldn't like...lol.

[reverendflash]

Yeah, but once you're here, you're hook'd

Rev:elderly: