whats humanities greatest achievement?

[vts31]

what is it?

[vts31]

i said it was language. because it allows to community information to others. we are no longer islands.

[reverendflash]

I said art, because (I can't believe I am going to say this) "a picture is worth a thousand words."

Art allows people with limited language skills portray their views...

IMHO

Rev:elderly:

[pom]

Tough call. Btw, I remember reading somewhere that Japanese had elected the top 3 inventions of all time.

3. Car
2. Computer
1..... Instant noodles. :-\

pom :cowboy:

[upuaut]

I put down Mathmatics. Though I suck at it, it is in fact the universal language. Anyone with a certain level of tech will be able to decypher mathmatics, no matter the culture, or even terrestrial origin of the being.

Of course I'm partial to computers which rely upon math to work..

[bit-101]

language is kind of a natural occurance. it's not like someone suddenly said, "hey, i got this great idea. let's create this thing called language so we can communicate!" (i know there's a big paradox there, but you get the point). it just evolved from grunts and scratches to more eloquent grunts and scratches.

mathematics is an observation of how things work and figuring out the rules. not to put down the brilliancy of those things that were figured out, but it's detective work - looking into things that already exist.

religion has caused far more problems than it ever set out to solve.

so the winner is art. it takes the communication of language, the investigative ability of math and the spirituality of religion and ties it all together in one package.

[bit-101]

wait, i changed my mind - instant noodles!

[thoriphes]

mathematics...
where would most things be today? you wouldn't be posting here, most people would have other jobs, bridges would be insecure, planes would crash into each other, horse-driven carriages, etc...

[Jubba]

Math is essential for every day life. Like Thor said, its keeps many of us alive every day. However, just because of this I do not feel that it is the greatest accomplishment.

Like Bit said, language was just grunts and scratches that became more defined grunts and scratches.

Religion (to me) is no accomplishment at all, but rather a hinderence.

The winner of this poll would have to be Art. There are other things that I feel are more important than art, however, they were not listed in the options so my answer is ART. Art is universal. When someone paints a picture of a man, every single person in the world can recognize that painting as a man. Their word for man may be different, but it is still the same idea.

[MedaXis]

I think Math is the greatest, reason: what's a computer with out math
what's life without computers?

Steve

[pom]

Originally posted by bit-101
wait, i changed my mind - instant noodles! Surely you mean Chicken instant noodles.

man I just ate a perfect chicken murtabak... delicious.

[Ryall]

MATH! universal language that can describe and (at varying degrees) predict the world around us that crosses all communication barriers (as pointed out by David). Also I am a bit bias as I entered college as a MAth major - so obviously I really enjoy it.

Peace

[Raydred]

Acutlaly i think the Hot Dog was man's greatest achievment. What other food is so versitile and almost everywhere. But since the hot dog wasent a choice, i chose math. =)

[upuaut]

I don't know.. after reading bit's explination of math, I'm partial to the idea that math is no more than discovery of the functions of the universe which already existed... I'd still vote math though,, given the choices. I love art... I have made it a point to study art for no reason other than my love of it... I still don't find it to be a that great an achievement in the grand scheme of things.

truthfuly, a "great achievement" would be something that was difficult to do, given our situation. Math, Art, Language, and even instant noodles were all pretty much impossible NOT to develope.

Think of something that was very unlikely for man to develope but did so anyway and I'll name it a great achievement.

[RenaissanceGirl]

Oh this is easy: Ben & Jerry's Half Baked. Anybody who has ever tried it would have to be crazy not to agree with me. :P

I say either math or art because they are both universal. Language is more of a give and take - it's a communication tool and a cultural tool, but it also can be a barrier.

[bit-101]

i have a new answer - the thermos!

it keeps hot things hot, and cold things cold.



how does it know???


but seriously folks...

for me it was a toss up between art and math. anyone who knows me, knows i'm partial to math. but i see that art, in many cases, takes math as a starting point and builds on it. math can be used to swindle enron customers, build a bigger bomb, or manipulate politcal votes. but art takes math and makes it something bigger and better and more beautiful.

[pom]

i see that art, in many cases, takes math as a starting point and builds on it.Precisely. And this makes math the stronger. If art needs math to exist, or uses math as an inspiration, then art is merely an avatar (in the real meaning of the word) of math. Something secondary to math.

Math wins.

pom :cowboy:

[bit-101]

no, no, no. math is a tool we use to create art.
which is a greater achievement? michelangelo's "david" or the chisel he used to carve it?

(i know you'll say the chisel just to be a wise guy!:evil: )

[reverendflash]

I agree with Bit...

Art was here before math... Math was incorporated into western art in the Rennaisance... I think... :P

Rev:elderly:

[kirupa]

Hey all!
I think Math has to be one of humanities greatest achievement. Art will only evolve you so far up through society. Math is a form of self-expression that is a two-edged sword. If used wisely, the world can be benefited such as economic theories, stock markets, physics, chemistry, etc. Alas, for every yin there is a yang. Math is also the square root of all evil. :evil: Greed, corporate mismanagement, wars, etc. take math into account. I'm sure the art of trajectory and projectile motion went into the gun the sniper used in the DC area.

If we wanted to be a primitivie society with few worries, art is our solution. Nobody would be complaining. Because we and our ancestors have been pulled into this great game of numbers and materialism, math will have to be humanities greatest achievement for all the good and bad reasons. Without math, everybody who goes to Burger King and buys a burger because of the artsy poster will get a chance to sue BK because they are too dumb to realize it is killing them.

Yes! The burger has artistic appeal in those nice posters, but math ensures that the calorie count is posted. Math ensures that the illiterate BK-fanboy gets bazillions of $$$ from suing BK. Math ensures that the lawyer gets enough to find another restaurant junkie to support.

Remember, without math, America would still be a vast area inhabited by Native Americans. Britain would never have colonialized. Diseases would have wiped out most of the planet. All the art in the world probably would never have been able to create efficient methods of transportation, etc. Art and math are simply two different things.

Don't we all just love math :)

Cheers!
KirupaWhoWishesHeWasBetterInMath :P

[pom]

Originally posted by bit-101
no, no, no. math is a tool we use to create art.
which is a greater achievement? michelangelo's "david" or the chisel he used to carve it?Michelangelo's david. So what? Are you trying to compare math with a chisel, whatever that may be?

Let me ask you one question then: which is the greater achievement? my 2-year-old sister's drawing or Newton's laws of movement?

pom :evil: :evil: (evil twice, you'll notice)

[kirupa]

"Art inspires. Math creates" - Kirupanicus

Cheers!
KirupaWhoLovesCheesyOneLiners

[pom]

How about "Math structures, art extrapolates".

I'm not sure either one of the verbs I put there exist, but you get the idea (which is, to sum-up briefly, math>art).

[pom]

No, I've got a better one. "Math rulez, art suckz". A bit too straightforward maybe?

[Jubba]

Originally posted by ilyaslamasse
Which is the greater achievement? my 2-year-old sister's drawing or Newton's laws of movement?


To me, your 2-yr-old sister's drawing is a greater achievement. I can appreciate that more than Newton's laws. Newton's laws aren't really Newton's laws. They are the laws of the world and the way it behaves. They were predetermined...Newton just had some common sense and said, 'oh yeah....'

A chisel is the tool that a sculptor uses to carve the rock.

Bit was saying that math is just the tool that is used to create a much large, more beautiful masterpiece.

[kirupa]

You could paint using math. I saw some pictures at an art exhibit that had all the strange mathematical symbols arranged in an artistic manner. Quite strange ehh? :)

Cheers!
Kirupa :P

[upuaut]

art came before math? I find that an aguable case. There's no proof of that. Math, as bit has eliquently put it, was here all along, Art needed man to make it flat out, not discover it. Now some may say that proves that math is not an achievement of man, but I think that's an opinion more so than a fact. What is an achievement? Math still needed to be conquered.. which is an achievement in and of itself. It's much easier for a cave man to draw a line and then four more and say "grunt" (translation: nice gazel) it's a much greater achievement for a caveman to say, "ugg, grunt, ugg ook" (translation: oh, 3 plus 2 is 5) And that's not even covering algebra yet, just simple addition. Now take that same limited mind (slightly more advanced I admit) and have it figure out that x+y=5, given y=2, x must equal 3; or even better -3+x=5. Now you're talking about a serious accomplishment.

Math itself... no it's not a greater accomplishment, but the understanding of math is harder by far to accomplish than understanding how to make art.

[bit-101]

pom, i'd have to see the drawings in question. :)

i'm not trashing math. it was a tough choice for me.

math is totally cool, but by itself,kind of useless. you have to do something with it. you can do all kinds of things with it - artistic or boring or productive or evil.
an artist can take math and imbue his own life into it, creating something awesome.
art can use math, or have nothing to do with it. when their paths cross, that's pretty cool.

[pom]

I think you make a very good point Dave, and I agree on pretty much everything you said. But I'd like to come back to what Jubby said:
Originally posted by Jubba


To me, your 2-yr-old sister's drawing is a greater achievement. I can appreciate that more than Newton's laws. Newton's laws aren't really Newton's laws. They are the laws of the world and the way it behaves. They were predetermined...Newton just had some common sense and said, 'oh yeah....'First of all, I don't have a sister. Not so important.

I hope you're only trying to shock me, because otherwise I'm coming down to your house to knock you down. :P When I read what you wrote, it looks like Isaac just woke up one day, an apple fell on his head, he looked up at the stars and said "But of course! G=gM1/r² !!

[pom]

Bit, I'm not trying to trash art either, believe me. It's just that your example was a very bad one, so I had to give an even worse. :evil:

And for Christ's sake Jubby, my sister's drawing is an achievement for whom? Her, me, my parents.
Newton invented modern physics and differential calculus...

Last thing: why is philosophy not a possible choice?

[upuaut]

Last thing: why is philosophy not a possible choice?

because he didn't think of it, but I have to admit that you make a good statement by bringing it up. I would have had a harder time deciding if that was one of my choices.

[upuaut]

my illustrations were very simple.. but look at Pom's


G=gM1/r²

just look at that for a minute or two. You know how hard a thing that is to grasp for your average modern human? Now imagine that you're still sleeping on dirt, and fighting over who's god is tougher than who's... NOW think about the formula from that perspective. Art doesn't hold a candle, sorry.

[reverendflash]

I believe you are arguing left brain and right brain thinking...apples and oranges, so to speak...

In my opinion, math would not have come to it's current point, if at first Man did not use art to explain what was on his mind...

again, in my opinion, philosophy would not have evolved without art first being a way of expressing that philosophy....

Rev:elderly:

[upuaut]

Actually, art could not possibly be developed without phylosophising (god my spelling sucks) a subject.

I think that you're arguing "the chicken and the egg". :P

[Raydred]

I find it interesting that no one chose Religion. Which says 1 of 2 things:

1) We dont believe that religion is a great achievment and is actually a cause that people kill for (and they do..)

or

2) We dont believe in a God or gods.

Which always brings an interesting point in my mind. If we think the latter, did man make up religion as a reason for justifying our existance. I think for alot of people, humanity is pointless without a greater Existance, or a plan.

Its just stuff i think about constantly =)

[vts31]

i dont think religions is an achievement. i dont like religion at all. but i just added incase someone was into that kinda stuff.

[kirupa]

Hey ray,
I am quite religious (Christian), and I believe religion is an accomplishment - but I also believe that religion is an individualistic matter. Whatever choice you make about religion is an accomplishment for you (and only you!) and probably not meant to be shared with all of humanity (unless the venue is appropriate). I would pick math/art on the basis that it is something that everyone uses at sometime in their life.

I doubt you will find anyone who claims that math and art do not exist!

Cheers!
Kirupa :q:

[upuaut]

lol... I'm with you on that one Phil..

[Ryall]

I still think the greatest invention is the escalator-to-nowhere, right behind it are the giant magnifying glass and skyscraper made out of popsicle sticks (gotta love the simpsons).

But seriously... no one mentioned Spam?! Come on now, "meat-product-in-a-can" what could possibly beat that????

Peace :smirk: :cowboy: