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Pomme_
November 22nd, 2004, 09:15 AM
Keep off the grass - forever

How do you bar entry to a toxic-waste dump for tens of thousands of years?

Radioactive materials stored at Yucca Mountain will have half-lives of 10,000 years, and could be toxic as long as 100,000 years. That's far longer than the human race has existed, so since the 1980s, scientists have been studying ways to warn future civilizations to stay away.

Over time, climate change could transform the stark location into a desirable site for a city, but anthropologists say no language spoken today would still exist, so linguists, science-fiction writers, semioticians and engineers were hired to come up with solutions.

In a 1984 report titled Communication Measures to Bridge Ten Millennia, the U.S. Department of Energy suggested creating an "atomic priesthood" and a "ritual-and-legend" system that would use religion to spread word of the underground horrors.

Other ideas considered: using chemicals to make the area so "repulsively malodorous" that no one would go near it; erecting giant panels using comic strips to illustrate the danger, and something vaguely described as "microsurgical intervention with the human molecular blueprint" - in other words, encoding warnings inside the genes of the entire human race.

Another study suggested covering the area in black rocks, so it would be impossibly hot all the time, or sculpting the local geology to make it dizzying, nauseating and forbidding, with no straight lines or view of the sky.

Yucca Mountain officials say they will probably adopt the following, somewhat less radical measures adopted by a New Mexico facility for less radioactive waste. They would come into effect when the site shuts down in 300 years, and are thought to make it secure for 10,000 years.

The great wall: A huge, erosion-proof berm 11 metres high and 33 metres wide would encircle the site and contain hundreds of "specially configured metal objects" and magnets to reflect radar and provide a unique magnetic signature.
Stonehenge II: Granite monuments eight metres high and weighing 20 tons would be placed around the perimeter. They would display messages (engraved in seven languages that best represent humanity) plus infographics and cartoons warning of the hazard below.
Temple of doom: At the centre of the site, a solid granite temple (with an open roof to allow natural lighting) would contain a variety of stay-away messages in words and pictures.
Tunnel vision: Rooms walled in granite and buried well below the surface to guard against erosion and climate change would contain the same information as the temple overhead.
The plan: Intercept any attempt in the distant future to dig into the mountain by someone ignorant of what it contains.
Buried treasures: Thousands of small warning markers would be placed just below the surface at random throughout the area. Each of the nine-inch-diameter disks made of granite, aluminum oxide and fired clay would carry a warning message in one of the seven chosen languages.


Yeah right. Temple of Doom.
The "atomic priesthood" was fun too.

GreenLantern
November 22nd, 2004, 09:28 AM
What group of morons thought this stuff up?

I don't understand why we are burying this stuff. Why don't we shoot it at the sun, and be done with it/

andr.in
November 22nd, 2004, 09:30 AM
Stonehenge II :P

Pomme_
November 22nd, 2004, 09:31 AM
I think it's because of the risks that it explodes during launch-off.

GreenLantern
November 22nd, 2004, 09:37 AM
I think it's because of the risks that it explodes during launch-off.
explosion proof containers? I know they have them, I just watched something on the history channel. They use them to transport nuclear materials in trains and such.

hoodz
November 22nd, 2004, 09:41 AM
they can also make energy out of the waste, and they are already doing it but most of it gets dumpt but if they just keep making energy of all the waste there will eventually be no waste left :D

Pomme_
November 22nd, 2004, 09:43 AM
MixedOXyde Fuel is 10 times more toxic than normal plutonium and that recycling can only be done ONCE for the moment, but I don't want to turn this thread into Ordered... I was just pointing out the Temple of Doom in NewMexico...

[edit @GLantern] Good luck shooting off a heavily armored cargo into space... and the explosion of a rocketship is a tad bit bigger than 2 kilos of C4... ;)

But GOD!! TEMPLE OF DOOM! :evil2:

RabBell
November 22nd, 2004, 10:10 AM
hmmmmmm lets shoot a highly explosive, volatile, dangerous not to mention nuclear item at the provider of heat and warmth for our planet, provider of food and light.......hmmmmm *** strokes chin ***

good call ;)

Pomme_
November 22nd, 2004, 10:13 AM
well, the sun IS a highly volative explosive dangerous nuclear ball of fire already.

fester8542
November 22nd, 2004, 10:17 AM
Pomme_ once again I have to hand it to you. You are officially the strangest dude on the internet.

http://www.fourstarchef.com/award.gif

Pomme_
November 22nd, 2004, 10:27 AM
**Pomme_ walks up to the podium and takes up the microphone
"I will cherish this day till the end of times. Thank you everyone for supporting me thru all this. Thanks all!".


[does this mean I get to be a Mod now? :evil:]

GreenLantern
November 22nd, 2004, 10:34 AM
Now I am wondering how much different civilization will be in 100,000 years. If these guys are planning on building a "temple of doom", I am guessing that they are planning on civilization starting over at some point. So, I guess what I'm saying here is: Why wouldn't we speak the same language 100,000 years from now? I mean I understand that we know very little about 100,000 years ago, but we have written history now. We remember what happened because we write it down. Why would we forget?

dgrhm
November 22nd, 2004, 11:04 AM
"Atomic Priesthood!" I'm having images of the wacky priesthood from the second Planet of the Apes movie in my head.

Here's a wacky idea. How about building self aware robotic sentries around the waste site. They'd be able to repair and rebuild themselves as necessary. Make 'em solar powered, or even use the toxic radiation for energy.

(I mean, in about 20 to 30 years, we should have some seriously advanced computing power and much more advanced robotics. Just think of what kind of technology we'd have in 100 to 200 years from now. Heck, you could make the waste site self aware and program it to ward off invaders.)

As for 100,000 years into the future, its anybody's guess as to what will be around. It's hard to say what the effects of global warming and impending ice ages will do in 100,000 years. (The last ice age was around 50,000 years ago.)

It's clearly a sign we need to do some serious thinking about our energy sources and what kind of effect they have on us today and for future generations, not to mention what effects our industrialization will have in the future.

Lastly, I wouldn't launch radioactive material at the sun. You could just put it on the moon, or put it on robotic ships and that could fling the waste out to deep space or maybe turn Pluto into a garbage dump. ;) (I'd guess the radioactive materials would be disintegrated and dispersed before it ever got to the sun.)

jokun
November 22nd, 2004, 11:32 AM
Would anything we could throw at the sun really make any difference to it? I mean, the sun is already this huge nuclear furnace. Anything we sent in it's direction would be destroyed long before it actually reached the sun itself.

GreenLantern
November 22nd, 2004, 11:34 AM
Would anything we could throw at the sun really make any difference to it? I mean, the sun is already this huge nuclear furnace. Anything we sent in it's direction would be destroyed long before it actually reached the sun itself.
It would probably never actually get there. After it was completely disintegrated, the solar winds would probably send it right back to us.

morse
November 22nd, 2004, 12:28 PM
explosion proof containers? I know they have them, I just watched something on the history channel. They use them to transport nuclear materials in trains and such.
Then why don't we make planes out of them?

GreenLantern
November 22nd, 2004, 12:32 PM
I think they are fairly heavy, and by fairly I mean really.

Coppertop
November 22nd, 2004, 04:51 PM
Or, we could do nothing and let the people then who are so wonderfully advanced they feel they need to drop all currently present languages deal with it because they probably can ;)

Maxtr0sity
November 22nd, 2004, 05:51 PM
Sending stuff to the sun is a great idea, only if it didn't cost a gajillion dollars. I say bury them and give no warning. The future knows how to take care of themselves.

kirupa
November 22nd, 2004, 05:55 PM
Why don't we just dump it somewhere in the middle of nowhere like antarctica or the north pole....or just stay with Nevada which is almost the same thing w/e of Las Vegas and Reno :P

Maxtr0sity
November 22nd, 2004, 06:00 PM
Why don't we plant a piece of uranium in place of cavity fillings. Population (children) control.

Ψ
November 22nd, 2004, 06:11 PM
dont they use heavy water to store these toxic and radioactive material so that no radioactivity goes beyond the tank that contains the heavy water !!..

cuz i did a project on nuclear fission in grade 10 and i reasearched that they dump it into these tanks that contain heavy water ( another form of water but costs very expensive)

GreenLantern
November 22nd, 2004, 09:29 PM
Why don't we plant a piece of uranium in place of cavity fillings. Population (children) control.Or we could just put it in baby food ;)

Pomme_
November 23rd, 2004, 05:47 AM
you people are ugly...

I think we should just go ahead and build the TEMPLE OF DOOOOOOOM!

GreenLantern
November 23rd, 2004, 07:19 AM
As long as we can have tiki torches around the temple of doom I am ok with that plan.