WTC - POLL 1 Year After [Archive]

kirupa

October 6th, 2002, 01:00 PM

It just seems to be the least controversial and probably closer to the truth considering the choices given :) But I do lean more toward the first choice; I am not really big on conspiracy theories. Maybe I am just too apathetic to look into the issues clearer lol!

Cheers!
Kirupa :rambo:

lostinbeta

October 8th, 2002, 02:23 AM

Maybe everyone is just afraid to set you off again :-\

I chose #4

Also, I refuse to believe that my name is on a bomb that is bombing someone else. Frankly it isn't my fault anything happened. What did I do to start a war? I am not saying that avoiding the truth is better... no where near. What I am saying is that it is foolish to believe that one person can change the mind of our government and the vast majority of the population.

UNFLUX

October 8th, 2002, 02:36 AM

What I am saying is that it is foolish to believe
that one person can change the mind of our government and the
vast majority of the population.

The irony of that statement, is that our government tends to
change the rules and laws to accommodate the minority. But the
truth of the statement is right on the $.

/unflux
:goatee:

lostinbeta

October 8th, 2002, 01:29 PM

Yeah, they may be from our representatives, but you gotta admit, the government doesn't really care about the minorities opinion in these matters. So no matter how many people band together, it won't make a different because our government has made up their mind a long time ago.

That is another bad thing about our government:-\ They are quick to jump, but don't give a good look at what they are jumping into.

It seems like most people agree since #4 is the most popular choice.

RenaissanceGirl

October 8th, 2002, 02:21 PM

On this board, yes, #4 is the popular choice. But the country in general?

lostinbeta

October 8th, 2002, 02:23 PM

Good question. I made the assumption about it referring to our government, but you know what they say about the word assume :P

lostinbeta

October 8th, 2002, 02:46 PM

Hey Phil, do you know of a way to find out if calling your congressman actually counts for something, or if they just act as if it does and don't do anything? I am not trying to challenge you, I would just like to know because I have experienced a lot of people telling me one thing and doing another.

lostinbeta

October 8th, 2002, 02:56 PM

Makes perfect sense =)

eilsoe

October 8th, 2002, 02:57 PM

I hate politics...

lostinbeta

October 8th, 2002, 02:58 PM

Same here...... but what would we do without them unfortunately.

eilsoe

October 8th, 2002, 03:11 PM

for starters, less gossip...

lostinbeta

October 8th, 2002, 11:35 PM

You know what is really funny? Our current "plutocracy" was originally created by poor people that wanted to seperate from England which was taking all of our money. So poor people created our new government and rich people took it over.

But ya know, life sucks, and then you die, so just get used to it and try not to worry about things you can't "control".

I know that sounds really smug, but it is true (at least to me it is).

By the way, I do agree with your statement Phil.

bit-101

October 9th, 2002, 11:46 AM

i voted for #1. curious why so many people voted #4. what are all the holes in the official story? specifically, i mean in the idea that 18 terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into buildings. don't tell me people think it was a US missile or a UFO...

lowgas

October 9th, 2002, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by lostinbeta
You know what is really funny? Our current "plutocracy" was originally created by poor people that wanted to seperate from England which was taking all of our money. So poor people created our new government and rich people took it over.

i don't think any of the founding fathers were poor... i'm pretty sure they were all pretty well off landowners.

lowgas

October 9th, 2002, 12:13 PM

ya, i picked 1 also, altho i do think the government knew what was comming and let it happen.

lostinbeta

October 9th, 2002, 01:20 PM

Well that would definitely solve the issue of how I got an A in history, but always felt like I failed it :P

But either way, they fought to get away from England because England was a plutocracy to them (I think, refer to the history issue above again).

UNFLUX

October 9th, 2002, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by lowgas
ya, i picked 1 also, altho i do think the government knew what
was comming and let it happen.

you ACTUALLY believe that?! They knew exactly what was going
to happen and let it? Let those people die? Let the city get
destroyed? Let the country fall into severe depression and anger?

LET it happen?! Gimme a break. http://www.unflux.com/bb/rolleyes.gif

/unflux
:goatee:

bit-101

October 9th, 2002, 04:05 PM

i don't think they knew it was happening. the info might have been there, but overlooked and not believed, lost in the mountains of data. the intelligence hearings are a no-win situation. if they proved the info was there, then someone's to blame for overlooking it. if they prove that nobody knew it was happening, that's just as bad. they should have.

if giant purple frogs started falling out of the sky, someone would surely come to the forefront and say they warned about this 2 years ago.

lostinbeta

October 9th, 2002, 04:45 PM

Yes, I too believe they were tipped off about it, but you have to think about how many false threats the governments a day. It could have very easily been overlooked somehow.

I voted #4 because I believe the government has a lot of information that they aren't sharing with us. So we are really only getting one side of the story since they don't share the other side (well, at least I don't think they are sharing all the info).

No matter what the situation, it is best to know both sides.

Makaveli

October 9th, 2002, 05:56 PM

is anyone else drained from all the pro-war coverage on all the major news channels...you would think the government was running the channels... :)

Ryall

October 9th, 2002, 06:28 PM

I voted #1

Lost I agree with you about a lack of information being given out. Our gov has always been wary of telling all... however exactly what happened: terroists + planes = one ****ty day
I think is a no brainer, not too much left to question. Now our prior knowledge of this event, intel tips we may have had, and how we should be responding internationally these are all things that raise serious questions....

Peace

lostinbeta

October 9th, 2002, 06:32 PM

True that we know what happened that day... but some questions come to pass about what brought up to that happening? People don't just wake up and say "lets plan an attack for no reason".

It makes me wonder if our government did something in particular to piss them off. Just wondering though, I have no real idea on why exactly they chose to attack us, just bits and pieces that I have heard.

Now our prior knowledge of this event, intel tips we may have had, and how we should be responding internationally these are all things that raise serious questions....

Yep, I agree fully.

bit-101

October 10th, 2002, 09:20 AM

i'd love to see it.

bit-101

October 10th, 2002, 10:35 AM

i gotta admit i'm fascinated by this stuff. i don't believe it, but i think i have a fairly open mind if you want to present your evidence.

I will continue with my thesis if anyone wants to hear it and requests it. But what you are all being told to believe is patently false. The WTC buildings were NOT felled by two aircraft. This is a lie.

i'm curious. are you denying that 2 aircraft hit the WTC? or that they did hit it, but in addition to that, something else caused the buildings to collapse. i get that you are implying there was some internal or underground explosion that actually caused the collapse. are you saying the planes were flown into the towers as a kind of diversion?

and why was the plane shot down in penn? i could actually believe that the military would shoot down a plane headed towards DC after the pentagon and WTC hits. and i could believe that it would be covered up. i don't think that happened, but if shown evidence, i would be open to it. but you are suggesting something beyond that. if these weren't terrorist hijackings, then why shoot down a plane?

bit-101

October 10th, 2002, 11:19 AM

just did some research of my own. here are the official seismic reports:

8:46:26 a.m. EDT [1240 UTC] Aircraft impact - north tower Magnitude 0.9
9:02:54 a.m. EDT [1302 UTC] Aircraft impact - south tower Magnitude 0.7
9:59:04 a.m. EDT [1359 UTC] Collapse - south tower Magnitude 2.1
10:28:31 a.m. EDT [1428 UTC] Collapse - north tower Magnitude 2.3

9:59 and 10:28 are the times of the collapses. now, if a plane hitting the building on the 90-whatever floor can cause a .9 magnitute reaction on the ground, it makes sense that 10 or so stories of the WTC starting to collapse would cause at least 2.1.

also, if there was an explosion in the basement, which is the theory i've found on a few other sites, the towers would probably collapse the way usual demolished buildings collapse - they seem to sink into the ground. the cloud of debris is at the bottom of the building and the top floors are intact til they hit ground.

the usual theory in the WTC is that the top floors collapsed and kind of domino-effected down. this coincides with what was visible. the top of the building dissapeared into smoke and dust and the destruction travelled downwards.

i haven't found a reliable report about the molten metal yet.

lowgas

October 10th, 2002, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by MakaVeli_Da_DoN
you would think the government was running the channels... :)
they are.

bit-101

October 10th, 2002, 11:44 AM

i'm more inclined to think that business runs the channels. money (advertising, etc.) talks. why listen to the government. ask yourself who the gov't listens to.

lostinbeta

October 10th, 2002, 11:47 AM

That is true. A friend of mine showed me a whole entire list of what companies owned what tv stations. If I can get the site from him, I will post it here.

bit-101

October 10th, 2002, 11:52 AM

then compare that list against campaign donations, etc.

RenaissanceGirl

October 11th, 2002, 01:37 PM

Phil I'm interested in reading more of your findings on 911 and I also am interested in what bit-101 has to say.

bit-101

October 11th, 2002, 02:27 PM

pretty much all the stuff he's saying (and more) can be found here:

http://serendipity.magnet.ch/wtc.html

it gets pretty crazy though. there's so many conspiracy theories there, i don't even know which one the author believes. the wtc was either brought down by thermite or a nuke in the basement, or unmanned, remote control fighter jets painted to look like passenger planes (the originals were rerouted to a military base. not sure what they did with the passengers) or there was a giant laser beam that disintigrated the buildings. (i'm dead serious - that's what the guy is saying.) and it was all done by either the fbi or the chinese or the russians or the jews. i couldn't quite tell.

definitely an interesting read! :)

lowgas

October 14th, 2002, 12:44 PM

so uhh phil, do you have the negatives to these photos youve been examining? how do you know your not examing doctored photos... that were doctored to look fake?

bit-101

October 14th, 2002, 10:23 PM

come on now, that was a valid question. if you're going to present these very radical ideas and claim to have hard proof, you can't just brush off anyone who questions your proof with a "i don't have time for people like you".

you are claiming that all the media's pictures/films were doctored, but you have one or two that show something different. it's more logical to think that the one different one is faked, and the large archive of other pictures that agree with each other are true.

reverendflash

October 14th, 2002, 10:49 PM

I guess Phil is a little testy tonight... :)

if you want to see what he is talking about, I recommend you go to his site:

where he has this link (amongst a bunch of others)

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero14/missile/trou_en.htm

Just for the record, I am not endorsing www.corpust.com , I'm just passing along a link=)

Rev:elderly:

EDIT: use IE to view, Netscape will give you the source...:*(

reverendflash

October 15th, 2002, 12:07 AM

sorry Phil, I did not mean to belittle your response.:)

I was trying to give the lazy a way to find out what you were talking about, without a condesending tone.:-\

While I don't necessarily agree with all of your statements, I do respect the fact that you have done the research, have come to your own conclusions, and I feel you don't deserve the petty "shots" you have rec'd.

I personally feel that there are way too many people ready to take whatever sermon is spewed at them and regurgitate it as their own view.

Sometimes I don't know when to keep my mouth shut:x

peace to all,

Rev:elderly:

PS...I agree with your view on anonymity...that is why my full name is listed in my profile, and the only email I use is my full name...

Rev:elderly:

reverendflash

October 15th, 2002, 12:30 AM

thanks Phil... :P

and to all:

Question Authority...every day!

Rev:elderly:

bit-101

October 15th, 2002, 09:54 AM

phil, i spent several hours on your site, exploring many of the links and several other sites that have similar data. i haven't seen anything that leads me to the conclusions you and they draw. one common denominator is that there is a certain attitude toward the US Government, and references to numerous other conspiracy theories.

it doesn't matter how many hours of research you do. if it is done with a preconcieved notion X, then you will dream up "evidence" to support X, and any evidence that shows something different can be declared as "faked".

as a relatively new member to these forums, i don't want to start or get involved in a big flame war here, so i will retire from this thread for now, though i will follow it looking for any evidence you might post. this has been intriguing.

lowgas

October 15th, 2002, 12:53 PM

hmm.. yep phil, your right. i do have a problem with sarcasm. i'm still workin on it.

anyway. altho i don't really believe most of the conspiracy theories out there, i do find them interesting and thought provoacing(**** i cant spell)... so i will probably check out your site to see whats there.
cheers.

Jubba

October 16th, 2002, 12:42 AM

You'll have to excuse Phil. He's been staying out in the sun too long...

Phil: Say it with me now... "sleeeeeep"

Cheers,
Jubs:cowboy:
(real name: Jeff E****)

I also have nothing to hide. I just prefer to use my nickname because thats what all of my friends call me.

upuaut

October 16th, 2002, 01:02 AM

ah Phil.. you're just like me 5 years ago... but like me, you're coming along nicely.

one thing I learned, which I'd like to pass along is this:

I agree that one should never trust authority right off the bat. Anyone who seeks a possition of authority is instantly subject in my mind. Likewise though, are people with theories. Theories are like opinions (oh wait.. they are opinions), they are like *****holes, everyone has one. With the internet in it's prime, the influx of freaks with an opinion (not directed at you Phil, but some of your contemporaries) are in thier prime as well.
For me there is little doubt that there is more to 911 than the government wants us to know.. but I haven't seen anything yet which leads me to believe anything other than, poorly armed people took those planes into the buildings.
We'll have to wait and see I suppose. Sadly, when it comes to things like this, usually we have to wait a long time for evidence to surface. I doubt these theories will be resolved EVER, let alone anytime soon.

PS thanks for the kind words Phil. I know that you're trying very hard to increase both your knowledge base, and debate skills. That above anything is the most important thing in my mind. Right or wrong? we're all right or wrong sometimes.. but skill and intelligence..that's a rarily. Keep plugging away at this. I'll keep arguing the opponant's views and maybe together we'll get whatever @#%'s need to be gotten. :)

upuaut

October 16th, 2002, 02:25 AM

hey man.. there are lots of *******s out there who wont appologize even when they are wrong... Don't be so hard on yourself for having a bad day. Jeez, how many times have I had bad days on Kirupaforum talking about Flash??? :) It happens to us all, and us overly stressed paranoid types more often than the rest.

Intention is what's important Phil. I agree and disagree with people all the time.. but if your intentions are in the right place I don't care if you're a Canibal. I know where your intentions are and I like that there are people with passion in this world. The words are simply praise for the unpraisable.