Buliding my own computer phase 1

[DDD]

Acquistion phase

I have decided that I am going to build my own computer. (hopefully one that rivals my A-ware).

Could some of you computer tech guys let me know if this is a good motherboard to start off with?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=930212&CatId=182

Be warned I am going to ask advice all the way through this thing on which components to buy. Some of the technical jargon goes over my head.

Any spec and component advice welcome.

[grinch]

Oh that motherboard will work perfectly man. 5 APC slots, very good. When I built my motherboard, I got one for 10 bucks, and it works great!

Please share any other questions ;)

[DDD]

Thanks man...This will be an interactive project..lol. Just purchased that mobo. Now I am looking at processors which once again the slang they use goes over my head alomost everytime. But I am researching the terms and stuff.

[DDD]

wow looking at bare bones kits too...seems like a good deal....this is too much info to devour.

[grinch]

Ok for a proccessor, I'd reccomend a Pentium 4, atleast 2.0 ghz. I have a Intel Celeron 1.7 ghz, and runs ok. But definetly a pentium 4, good stuff.

[chenu]

I recommend a p4 with hyperthreading support. So one with 3.0ghz and up.

[CanadianGuy]

OOOOO I've been wanting to build my own computer too but I've been afraid I'd muck it up.

Could I just waltz my way down to FutureShop and get all the crap I need?

[Coppertop]

I would reccomend this board: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=617447&CatId=1137 but only if you are going with an AMD XP processor (which I also reccomend)

my dad and I both have our eyes on it for our new computers (among others)

[grinch]

CG,
building a computer is as easy as putting together a puzzle. It's so simple and cheap!

I'm only 15 years old, and built my first computer in about a half hour :P

I went to this awsome computer expo, where all these japs were selling amazing computer parts for cheap, good stuff.

But CG, you could easily waltz down there and pick up the stuff you need, not much really! Here are the things you need.


Computer Case (has to be cool :P)
Power Supply
CD-ROM/Floppy
Hard drive
Graphic Card (Unless supported with motherboard)
RAM
CPU
Heatsinc

Audio Card
Fan(s)

[CanadianGuy]

Thanks for the push fellas. I think I'm going to do it. I love opening stuff up and putting crap together. *rubs hands together mischeviously*

[grinch]

Lol,
good luck man, ask questions all y'all want ;)

[bobdoe]

umm...putting a computer together is easier than assembling flash actionscript code. Well, thats if everything goes accordingly. =)

[minimalistik]

This is my card: Asus P4P800S
http://au.asus.com/products/mb/socket478/p4p800s/overview.htm

It suits well because my comp is:
P4 3.2ghz with HT
Kingston 1024mb ddr ram
ATI 128mb Radeon x800 pro
120gb hd

[grinch]

Sorry, this is offtopic, but how fast is the fastest cpu out there?

[minimalistik]

I think this is current:


Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 560 with HT Technology (3.60 GHz, 1MB L2 cache, 800 MHz FSB)


from: http://www.intel.com/performance/

Thats if your talking about desktop processors and not supercomputers.

[grinch]

Oh wow, 3.6! I remember when I saw the 3.2!
Thanks!

[minimalistik]

No problem. ;) Everything just keeps going up and P5 will get released sooner or later.

[wizard]

HyperThreading. :thumb:

Can't forget that.

Edit: Just make sure your processor says: 'With HT Technology'

[nobody]

What exactly is hyper threading. I'm going to be buying a new computer soon and I have no idea what hyper threading means.

Sorry for hijacking 3d!

[wizard]

What exactly is hyper threading. I'm going to be buying a new computer soon and I have no idea what hyper threading means.

Sorry for hijacking 3d!HyperThreading (http://www.intel.com/technology/hyperthread/) Second paragraph does a good job explaining it. ;)

[grinch]

xxviii, I would advise you not to buy a computer!
I built my computer with 450$, which would be worth a 2,000 dollar one ;)

[wizard]

Yeah I agree with grinch. I built mine for $600 and one just as good would be about double that. You're better off building your own or finding someone that could do it for you, but it's really not hard at all.

[nobody]

Well I'm gonna be getting a notebook for college, and there's no way I'm intelligent enough to build a laptop.

Thanks for the hyperthreading link!

[minimalistik]

Make sure what computer your buying is what you should be paying for, 28. I regret getting my one now when i could have got it for under $1000 with all the top spanky hardware specs. Ill get a new one at www.atcomputer.com.au

[minimalistik]

ohh your getting a laptop, thought you were on about a new comp...

[kirupa]

DDD - I may be wrong here, but since you want to rival your Alienware rig, I'm guessing you want to build a computer with the latest stuff right?

The motherboard you selected seems a bit outdated. Most new motherboards should at least support AGP 8X, or if you are really interested in being on the cutting edge, find a MB that supports the new PCI-X (X = Express - Extreme ehh?!) slots.

Also, I try to avoid the motherboards that come with integrated sound, for you may find that getting a separate PCI sound card such as the Audigy 2 may be better. One of my old IBM's had both sound and video integrated on the MB (it was about 6 years ago hehe), and I found it a pain to disable them when I went with my own separate video card and sound card. The good old days of ISA, Vesa, and one lone PCI slot lol.

:alien:

[DDD]

d'oh...my friend just said that too....I contacted the vendor about making a change, luckily it was caught. Yes I dont want on board sound. Good call man

[Behemoth-Dan]

PCI Express. :) That is the new one Kirupa. Alienware is using PCI Express to develop their snazzy new dual-video card technology.

[The_Vulcan]

Unless you are making a computer from second hand parts.

Is it just me or is it cheaper to buy a computer package from the store ?

They get all OEM parts, cheaper than anything you can buy in the store.

[Voetsjoeba]

Man ... you are so lucky to have an AlienWare comp, plus your dual monitor setup !

Anyway - since you are trying to compete with your AWare comp (which will be a tough job since AWare is the top of the notch when it comes to extreme speed), you'll have to get yourself some expensive and speedy stuff. Here are a few guidelines:

- The processor - make sure you have a processor that's as fast as possible. I would suggest checking out those new Athlon64's - they run at 64bit, where all other processors run at 32bit. They can handle twice as much as others. I think the fastest model of the Athlon64 is 3800+. Not bad, aye ?

- FSB - make sure your FSB (Front Side Bus) is as fast as possible. The FSB is the connection between the processor and the rest of your computer, so the faster the FSB, the faster the whole system. 333 Mhz is the absolute minimum, 800 Mhz is recommended. If you can find faster, go with the faster one.

- Hard Drive - You should get a HD with of course enough capacity, but the RPM (Rotations Per Minute) is also important. The higher the RPM, the faster the disk can read and write data. Today the top is 10,000 RPM, and the common standard is 7,000 RPM. The Western Digital Raptor is one that runs at 10,000 RPM, you might wanna look into it. And, if you want and additional extreme performance boost, then I suggest setting up a RAID-0 striping system. That means that you connect two HD's that are controlled as one, resulting in doubling the read access and write access time. Very performant setup.

- Motherboard - Always make sure that you get a motherboard that supports the processor of your choice, has an as fast FSB as possible, has at least AGP 8x, and as much PCI slots as possible (5 is a good amount). PCI Express is a bonus, but not required.

- GFX card - Simply get the fastest you can find, preferably ATI. nVidia cards seem to get very hot lately (too hot, really), and they're already squeezing every bit of performance out of their cards with their drivers, whereas ATI cards don't get as hot, look much cooler, and the drivers aren't perfect yet, though they're already faster than nVidia cards. If you're going for an nVidia based card, avoid ones that have a huge cooler system that takes up the PCI slot next to the AGP slot. A very fast one (though not sure if it's the fastest, but it'll be close) is the ATI X800 XT. God, it's fast.

That's about the most important stuff.

[El_Thierro]

This may be slightly offtopic, but I just wanted to show this to you:
My bro put his own computer together as well, and this is a link to a forum where he gives some specs and pictures. Not really helpful seeing it's all in Dutch (only Voets could read it :D) but it's still kinda cool.

http://www.tones.be/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14318&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[minimalistik]

The x800 card is about $800 AUD right now, expensive....

[grinch]

Sorry to ask this, but do you think this sound card is worth keeping, or is it outdated? Creative Sound Blaster PC1512

[λ]

Recently the nVidia cards have been coming close and even beating the ATI ones - it's all a matter of personal preference really..

I've got an ATi 9800 XT and I'm pleased with its performance in general, but I need to get a new motherboard because mine only supports AGP 4x :(

I'm slightly angry with ATi though, because they really don't give a **** about linux users (nVidia linux drivers are a dream! they even have freebsd drivers)

[DDD]

Man ... you are so lucky to have an AlienWare comp, plus your dual monitor setup !

Anyway - since you are trying to compete with your AWare comp (which will be a tough job since AWare is the top of the notch when it comes to extreme speed), you'll have to get yourself some expensive and speedy stuff. Here are a few guidelines:

- The processor - make sure you have a processor that's as fast as possible. I would suggest checking out those new Athlon64's - they run at 64bit, where all other processors run at 32bit. They can handle twice as much as others. I think the fastest model of the Athlon64 is 3800+. Not bad, aye ?

- FSB - make sure your FSB (Front Side Bus) is as fast as possible. The FSB is the connection between the processor and the rest of your computer, so the faster the FSB, the faster the whole system. 333 Mhz is the absolute minimum, 800 Mhz is recommended. If you can find faster, go with the faster one.

- Hard Drive - You should get a HD with of course enough capacity, but the RPM (Rotations Per Minute) is also important. The higher the RPM, the faster the disk can read and write data. Today the top is 10,000 RPM, and the common standard is 7,000 RPM. The Western Digital Raptor is one that runs at 10,000 RPM, you might wanna look into it. And, if you want and additional extreme performance boost, then I suggest setting up a RAID-0 striping system. That means that you connect two HD's that are controlled as one, resulting in doubling the read access and write access time. Very performant setup.

- Motherboard - Always make sure that you get a motherboard that supports the processor of your choice, has an as fast FSB as possible, has at least AGP 8x, and as much PCI slots as possible (5 is a good amount). PCI Express is a bonus, but not required.

- GFX card - Simply get the fastest you can find, preferably ATI. nVidia cards seem to get very hot lately (too hot, really), and they're already squeezing every bit of performance out of their cards with their drivers, whereas ATI cards don't get as hot, look much cooler, and the drivers aren't perfect yet, though they're already faster than nVidia cards. If you're going for an nVidia based card, avoid ones that have a huge cooler system that takes up the PCI slot next to the AGP slot. A very fast one (though not sure if it's the fastest, but it'll be close) is the ATI X800 XT. God, it's fast.

That's about the most important stuff.

Good stuff....Man you are a tech and a programmer.? I'll hit you on MSN for more advice.....I'll keep the forum abreast of my decisions and progress, just in case anyone else ever wants to do this as well, the can refer to these threads.

After looking at prices, I wont be rivaling my AWare. lol....But it will be a good computer.

[kirupa]

Sorry to ask this, but do you think this sound card is worth keeping, or is it outdated? Creative Sound Blaster PC1512Not worth keeping. Go with a SB Live! Value or any other card that doesn't let your main CPU do all the sound processing.

[grinch]

Alright,
thanks kirupa!

[Voetsjoeba]

Recently the nVidia cards have been coming close and even beating the ATI ones - it's all a matter of personal preference really..

I've got an ATi 9800 XT and I'm pleased with its performance in general, but I need to get a new motherboard because mine only supports AGP 4x :(

I'm slightly angry with ATi though, because they really don't give a **** about linux users (nVidia linux drivers are a dream! they even have freebsd drivers) True, it's a matter of personal preference. You really need to get yourself an AGP 8x motherboard, you're not unleashing the full power of your card !

[grinch]

I've always wanted to get one of those neon glowing heat sinc, fan, and power supply!
Anyone have those?

[Maxtr0sity]

Ok, AGP 8X is pretty pointless, trust me. There's not a single card out there that's using the optimal juice of AGP 8X. Even the 9800 ProPlatinumSuperDuperUltraFastBigCard doesn't use full capacity. I've read many places that everyone that does get the card runs it on 4X for optimal performance. 8X is even mentioned to be unstable. If you're thinking about buying a new computer, I'd invest in a 64bit processor since they're the next step. 32bit will be outdated within a year or two and 64bit will make your next upgrade prolonged. I'm not so sure about PCI-Express because it can just be another slot possibility that'll die in a year, but then, it has been endorsed and produced by Intel lately which means it may go big. If it's not too late, I suggest you hold off for another month or two.

[Maxtr0sity]

Man ... you are so lucky to have an AlienWare comp, plus your dual monitor setup !

Anyway - since you are trying to compete with your AWare comp (which will be a tough job since AWare is the top of the notch when it comes to extreme speed), you'll have to get yourself some expensive and speedy stuff. Here are a few guidelines:

- The processor - make sure you have a processor that's as fast as possible. I would suggest checking out those new Athlon64's - they run at 64bit, where all other processors run at 32bit. They can handle twice as much as others. I think the fastest model of the Athlon64 is 3800+. Not bad, aye ?

Exactly, but put cost into perspective and you might want it dubed down to a lower 64bit version.

- FSB - make sure your FSB (Front Side Bus) is as fast as possible. The FSB is the connection between the processor and the rest of your computer, so the faster the FSB, the faster the whole system. 333 Mhz is the absolute minimum, 800 Mhz is recommended. If you can find faster, go with the faster one.

64Bit processor = 800Mhz+ FSB

- Hard Drive - You should get a HD with of course enough capacity, but the RPM (Rotations Per Minute) is also important. The higher the RPM, the faster the disk can read and write data. Today the top is 10,000 RPM, and the common standard is 7,000 RPM. The Western Digital Raptor is one that runs at 10,000 RPM, you might wanna look into it. And, if you want and additional extreme performance boost, then I suggest setting up a RAID-0 striping system. That means that you connect two HD's that are controlled as one, resulting in doubling the read access and write access time. Very performant setup.

Go with either Western Digital or Seagate only. Maxtor, Hitachi, etc are too fragile.

- Motherboard - Always make sure that you get a motherboard that supports the processor of your choice, has an as fast FSB as possible, has at least AGP 8x, and as much PCI slots as possible (5 is a good amount). PCI Express is a bonus, but not required.

Refer to my last post.

- GFX card - Simply get the fastest you can find, preferably ATI. nVidia cards seem to get very hot lately (too hot, really), and they're already squeezing every bit of performance out of their cards with their drivers, whereas ATI cards don't get as hot, look much cooler, and the drivers aren't perfect yet, though they're already faster than nVidia cards. If you're going for an nVidia based card, avoid ones that have a huge cooler system that takes up the PCI slot next to the AGP slot. A very fast one (though not sure if it's the fastest, but it'll be close) is the ATI X800 XT. God, it's fast.

nVidia or ATI is up to you depending on your budget, the most expensive doesn't mean it's the best.

That's about the most important stuff.

[Krilnon]

333 Mhz is the absolute minimum, 800 Mhz is recommended. If you can find faster, go with the faster one.

Macs can go to 1.25 Ghz FBS... :p

[CanadianGuy]

*drools*

I'm getting excited by all this. Can I build a super computer with $2,000 Canadian? I mean one with the 64 bit, 3.6ghz etc?

[grinch]

Definetly CG,
with ease ;)

[Maxtr0sity]

You think you're excited? Hardware turns me on.

[grinch]

You think you're excited? Hardware turns me on.

Just the word gigabyte gives my the goosebumps... :P

When I hear my power supply kick in, and my HD's start running, it's like Barry White to my ears.

[wizard]

When I hear my power supply kick in, and my HD's start running, it's like Barry White to my ears. :geek: ;)

[Maxtr0sity]

Can't say the same. I have a piece of over tweaked out junk that's basically better at being a footrest than anything else.

[grinch]

Lol not as much as when I hear my turbo rev in an 86 corolla while drifting at extreme angles... :nerd:

[wizard]

86' Corolla, not bad but I personally prefer my 88' Mustang.

[Maxtr0sity]

1999 Corolla, in-line 4 baby!

[teet]

I'm getting excited by all this. Can I build a super computer with $2,000 Canadian? I mean one with the 64 bit, 3.6ghz etc?

I don't know if 64 bit is the way to go at this point and time. I read an article comparing the 64 bit AMD processors to some of Intel's newer processors (with prescott architecture), and the 64 bit chips just couldn't keep up. Of course, another article might say the exact opposite (you can trust everything you read on the internet).

As for building your own computer, these are things I would do/look for:

1. I would use an intel motherboard. Make sure it has AGP 8x, and PCI-x would be cool too (although those might be too pricey). Make sure it supports 800 mhz front side bus. Make sure it supports the prescott chip. Make sure it supports DDR 400 memory (I think that's the fastest they have right now). Make sure it supports serial ATA hard drives. On board sound would be good, but I would try to find a mobo without onboard video (you'll want to use your own card anyway).

2. I would use an intel processor (what can I say? I'm an intel man). Pentium 4, hyperthreading, 800 mhz front side bus, prescott architecture.

3. I have no preference on memory. Kingston is a good company. You'll probably want 1 gigabyte of DDR 400 memory.

4. I would go with an NVidia video card. Geforce 4 ti cards are fast and relatively cheap now, or you could go all out and get the top of the line NVidia.

5. I would use a Seagate Barracuda or Western Digital Harddrive. Make sure it's a serial ATA drive (7200 RPM minimum).

6. I would get whatever case has a large enough power supply, enough bays, and is the cheapest...who cares what your machine looks like.

That's pretty much it, you'll also want to pick up a floppy drive and 52x CDRW (maybe even a DVD burner??? make sure it's dual layer!).

-teet

[Maxtr0sity]

I don't know if 64 bit is the way to go at this point and time. I read an article comparing the 64 bit AMD processors to some of Intel's newer processors (with prescott architecture), and the 64 bit chips just couldn't keep up. Of course, another article might say the exact opposite (you can trust everything you read on the internet).

As for building your own computer, these are things I would do/look for:

1. I would use an intel motherboard. Make sure it has AGP 8x, and PCI-x would be cool too (although those might be too pricey). Make sure it supports 800 mhz front side bus. Make sure it supports the prescott chip. Make sure it supports DDR 400 memory (I think that's the fastest they have right now). Make sure it supports serial ATA hard drives. On board sound would be good, but I would try to find a mobo without onboard video (you'll want to use your own card anyway).

AGP 8x is a waste of money, stick with 4. Intel motherboards aren't for pros. AMD is the way to go. Plus, AMD makes the best 64bit so far. Mobo video isn't the worste idea for an extra buck or two considering if your video card poops, at least you have a backup to attempt to fix it.

2. I would use an intel processor (what can I say? I'm an intel man). Pentium 4, hyperthreading, 800 mhz front side bus, prescott architecture.

Defeats the purpose of the 64bit processor doesn't it?

3. I have no preference on memory. Kingston is a good company. You'll probably want 1 gigabyte of DDR 400 memory.

4. I would go with an NVidia video card. Geforce 4 ti cards are fast and relatively cheap now, or you could go all out and get the top of the line NVidia.

ATI scores higher in general than nVidia cards. Since they're in the same price range, go with ATI.

5. I would use a Seagate Barracuda or Western Digital Harddrive. Make sure it's a serial ATA drive (7200 RPM minimum).

Orrrrrrr...Raid!

6. I would get whatever case has a large enough power supply, enough bays, and is the cheapest...who cares what your machine looks like.

300W minimum. Cases are important for heat disipation, definitely a full tower.

That's pretty much it, you'll also want to pick up a floppy drive and 52x CDRW (maybe even a DVD burner??? make sure it's dual layer!).

-teet

[kirupa]

What good is a 64-bit processor if you do not have applications running running in 64-bit. The reason I pick an Intel over AMD almost always is that, at least in the past, when the CPU overheated, Intel CPUs contained built-in technology that prevented the CPU from melting. Intel, in my view, simply makes better quality products. I would rather use the intel mobo reference designs over an AMD any day. My choice of Intel is part personal preference and part bad experiences with AMD in the past.

About the video card on the mobo, I'm going to have to disagree max! Nothing that is embedded on your motherboard is good. See I'm a Right Wing Conservative...when it comes to computers :P The motherboard has to have limited powers. The motherboard's only job is the make sure that all its citizen PCI/AGP cards don't run away. Something that is embedded means that it can't be upgraded in the future, and if some hardware conflict occurs, you may have some issues trying to disable something that is attached to your motherboard. Impeaching troublesome hardware is more difficult if that hardware is stuck on the motherboard itself. Also, for the most part, graphics cards from reputable manufacturers such as Hercules, Sapphire, etc. don't have a high likelihood of failing.

Also, AGP 8X is what you need for today's games. Unlike 64-bit processing, old and new games will take advantage of the extra data throughput offered by AGP 8X.

EDIT: Also, I've been tempted by ATI because of their lower prices (and I even bought a new ATI a few weeks ago!), but their shoddy driver support makes me regret my choice everytime. The new nVidia card is not all that bad, and it is capable of playing all new games. Better drivers imo are far better than a few fps that your eyes probably will never recognize.

:ub:

[Maxtr0sity]

What good is a 64-bit processor if you do not have applications running running in 64-bit. The reason I pick an Intel over AMD almost always is that, at least in the past, when the CPU overheated, Intel CPUs contained built-in technology that prevented the CPU from melting. Intel, in my view, simply makes better quality products. I would rather use the intel mobo reference designs over an AMD any day. My choice of Intel is part personal preference and part bad experiences with AMD in the past.

That's true, but more and more 64bit computers will ship within a year and when that happens, here comes the applications. AMD CPU's does have a slight problem with heat, but what you paid is what you get.

About the video card on the mobo, I'm going to have to disagree max! Nothing that is embedded on your motherboard is good. See I'm a Right Wing Conservative...when it comes to computers :P The motherboard has to have limited powers. The motherboard's only job is the make sure that all its citizen PCI/AGP cards don't run away. Something that is embedded means that it can't be upgraded in the future, and if some hardware conflict occurs, you may have some issues trying to disable something that is attached to your motherboard. Impeaching troublesome hardware is more difficult if that hardware is stuck on the motherboard itself. Also, for the most part, graphics cards from reputable manufacturers such as Hercules, Sapphire, etc. don't have a high likelihood of failing.

Disabling pieces of the mobo isn't hard, but from my experiences, it's better to be safe. Does the extra 10 minutes to disable your onboard really matter? It doesn't matter how bad your onboard is, it's a backup, even 2MB is enough for onboard for its purposes.

Also, AGP 8X is what you need for today's games. Unlike 64-bit processing, old and new games will take advantage of the extra data throughput offered by AGP 8X.

:trout: NO 8X! 4X!

EDIT: Also, I've been tempted by ATI because of their lower prices (and I even bought a new ATI a few weeks ago!), but their shoddy driver support makes me regret my choice everytime. The new nVidia card is not all that bad, and it is capable of playing all new games. Better drivers imo are far better than a few fps that your eyes probably will never recognize.

From what I've seen, most pros use hacked drivers that optimizes the GPU which is much more superior than the ATI drivers.

:ub:

[Coppertop]

kman: I have to disagree with you there on the AMD overheating part. I have tried overclocking my computer to almost that point and was able to use my processor again in about 1 hr. My friend who is a little more daring than I over heated his and still managed to use it again in 2.5hrs approx. Not only that, but I find that AMD processors are more, "overclockable" I guess you would say, in the sense that they can go higher and faster before becoming unstable.

also about nVidia drivers, I have a massive grudge against the driver because I cannot change many of my visual settings without it changing them back (I know it's the driver because when I removed it the problems vanished) as for ATI, I haven't had so much as an inconvienience with their driver. On my next computer, I'm going ATI all the way.

however, I do agree with you on the AGP front

edit: and one more thing, I will admit that AMD's do pump out a lot of heat. My room temperature rises 7 degrees (Celcius) when I leave it on for 2+ hours.

note: I no longer overclock since that incident.

[Maxtr0sity]

Exactly. AMD processors are more tweakable than Intel. Intel tends to lock their speeds/frequencies. If you're really hardcore, get some water cooling! If not, moderate your overclocking. When it's a cold night, overclock it, when it's hot during the day, dub it down to normal or even underclock it. I do it with my GFX.

[Coppertop]

When it's hot out I lie on the floor of the basement with a straw in my mouth leading to 2 cans of pop

@max: AMD processors are locked too, however AMD doesn't appear to make much of an effort to support that as the Athalon T-Bird cores could be unlocked by a pencil stroke, and the XP ones could be unlocked through a simple (but delicate) method of masking, filling, and "painting" (with silver laquer). Not only that but some mobos are advertised to "unlock AMD processors" and finally to top it all off, the AMD +2500 Mobile has an unlocked multiplier that is ment for laptops, however can be used in desktop models - allowing you to get the most out of them as they run cooler than others, even when overclocking to +3200 levels. (It's one of the alternatives that I'm looking at)

[teet]

Please note that in my previous post I was only stating what I would do.

I work for a local computer store when I'm home from college. If somebody came into the shop today and asked me to build them a kick butt computer, that is what I would build them. I have never used AMD or ATI products so I can't really vouch for them...but I do know that Intel and NVidia make quality products and we have never had any trouble with them (within reason).


2. I would use an intel processor (what can I say? I'm an intel man). Pentium 4, hyperthreading, 800 mhz front side bus, prescott architecture.

Defeats the purpose of the 64bit processor doesn't it?

I'm not really sure what you're asking, could you restate your comment?

-teet

[Maxtr0sity]

Maybe I'm wrong, but Intel hasn't made a commercial version of it's 64bit chips correct? If so, you mentioned a 64bit processor, then you go onto Intel/Pentium 4.

[Coppertop]

ah ha! found it! http://tech-report.com/reviews/2004q1/athlonxp-m-2500/index.x?pg=1 they tested it with a 200mhz bus and it still did really well

edit: it being Athalon XP-M +2500

[DDD]

86' Corolla, not bad but I personally prefer my 88' Mustang.

I have one 2....just read your posts. Matter of fact not to long ago slapped on the gt40 heads and intake....ooohhh the sound of dual chambered flows...

Update:

So far I basically went with what Voets, Teet and K said. I dont have all the pieces yet, but I have my mobo, cpu...the rest will come as money comes. So far I believe I just eclipsed 350 bucks.

[prit]

86' Corolla, not bad but I personally prefer my 88' Mustang. i have a '66 Fastback:to:

but anyway, if you're serious about top o' the line garbage, go talk to the owner of your local LAN place...there's one near me called The Battlegrounds (http://www.thebattlegroundgc.com/)
and the guy who owns it build each PC in there, plus his master one (ooh how good)

oh, and DO NOT buy a case with a build in power supply...its like buying a mobo w/ a built in video and sound card
go for the best one you can - mine is 500w
the last thing u want is ur processor gone after playing games for hours on end :thumb:

[wizard]

i have a '66 Fastback:to:You mean your dad has a '66 Fastback... anyway, whether it's your or not, what kind of condition is it in? Hopefully it's nice and restored :ne:

And 3D, good to hear that there's another Mustang owner in here ... GT40 heads and intake? Very nice, but have you done anything with the exhaust?

[prit]

yeah


but unfortunately, its sitting in our garage...
my dad's friend is supposed to be restoring it, but he's been busy rebuilding a '67 stang

[cooleyo]

Whoa! I had some hardware questions, and since opinions are so DIVERGENT, (though I tend to listen more to matrix0 cause he answers a lot of technical questions on these forums) I'm still having problems deciding!

I'm going for AMD 3200+ (going to 3600/3800 is like thousands of dollars more in canada just for a puny 400/600mhz boost, TOTALLY unworthy!). I had a SATA hard drive recommended, because it had 10k rpms for like 3% more in price compared to western digital(@120 gigs). Does "SATA" mean a seagate ATA? I think so, but I'm not sure...

What type of ram should i get? Two 512's? And what is it with dual ram? Does it work the same way as hyperthreading? Are 64bit AMD processors / motherboards "hyperthreading capable"?

On videocards, I COULD afford a 600$ (canadian) one like the 800XT, but am I still good with a regular 300$ one (like the 9800 ati or the 5800 nvidia) if I want to play doom3, farcry and HL2?

Oh, to sum up: I REALLY don't intend to overcloack. Ever, never. Whatsoever. Never. I'm like, a complete noob. Don't ask me to modify pins 'n ****...Even if I did so two years ago in a hardware course, it was on test-computers--486's!--and NOT a 2000$ worth one! So I'm more the type to spend 80$ more just to get a good "bump" and not ever open the case again...

Lastly...If I'm no sound freak, if I don't need super-surround sound, does an on-board sound card suffice for my needs? Should I still get a 5.1-=compatible sound card in case I'd suddenly want surround sound? How much should this cost? etc...

[λ]

Whoa! I had some hardware questions, and since opinions are so DIVERGENT, (though I tend to listen more to matrix0 cause he answers a lot of technical questions on these forums) I'm still having problems deciding!

I'm going for AMD 3200+ (going to 3600/3800 is like thousands of dollars more in canada just for a puny 400/600mhz boost, TOTALLY unworthy!). I had a SATA hard drive recommended, because it had 10k rpms for like 3% more in price compared to western digital(@120 gigs). Does "SATA" mean a seagate ATA? I think so, but I'm not sure...

What type of ram should i get? Two 512's? And what is it with dual ram? Does it work the same way as hyperthreading? Are 64bit AMD processors / motherboards "hyperthreading capable"?

On videocards, I COULD afford a 600$ (canadian) one like the 800XT, but am I still good with a regular 300$ one (like the 9800 ati or the 5800 nvidia) if I want to play doom3, farcry and HL2?

Oh, to sum up: I REALLY don't intend to overcloack. Ever, never. Whatsoever. Never. I'm like, a complete noob. Don't ask me to modify pins 'n ****...Even if I did so two years ago in a hardware course, it was on test-computers--486's!--and NOT a 2000$ worth one! So I'm more the type to spend 80$ more just to get a good "bump" and not ever open the case again...

Lastly...If I'm no sound freak, if I don't need super-surround sound, does an on-board sound card suffice for my needs? Should I still get a 5.1-=compatible sound card in case I'd suddenly want surround sound? How much should this cost? etc...

SATA = Serial ATA, basically ATA but faster.

Hyperthreading has nothing really to do with ram. Hyperthreading makes it so a processor has two logical cores - basically letting it do two things at once. The performance gains are disputed, but are certainly less than having two processors.

Hyperthreading is only on P4s, not AMD64.

In terms of videocards, I'd get a 9800 XT if you want a last-gen card - the 6800's from nVidia are awesome but pricey.

An onboard sound card should be fine for your needs.

[Voetsjoeba]

Yeah, hyperthreading simulates two CPU's. With a double CPU setup, threads can be handled simultaneously because both the CPU's can handle one at the same time, resulting in a speed boost up to 30%.

An onboard sound card's quality is, such as onboard video, 99% of the times crap. If you want good sound, invest in a nice soundcard.

The reason why I prefer ATi over nVidia is that the latest nVidia cards can get extremely hot. In fact, I've read in a magazine that tested both an new-gen nVidia card and a new-gen ATi card, that after a day of testing work the nVidia card was too hot to take out by hand, and that they had to use oven mittens to take it out.

This isn't the case with the latest ATi cards, that's why I prefer them.

[cooleyo]

So if I don't want my video card to fry I'd better take an ati?
If I am a hardcore gamer should I spend 400$ more (canadian) just to get hyperthreading? Is it really THA THANG? Or am I safe enough with the 3200+ /64bit amd combo?

[λ]

So if I don't want my video card to fry I'd better take an ati?
If I am a hardcore gamer should I spend 400$ more (canadian) just to get hyperthreading? Is it really THA THANG? Or am I safe enough with the 3200+ /64bit amd combo?

You're safe enough with amd64.

[cooleyo]

Thanks NJS :)
Help is very very much appreciated when it's on the matter of hundreds and thousands of dollars ;) Well, I'm now aiming towards a "ASUS K8V SE DX K8T800" (this long thing, and I haven't even typed its full name! *whew!*) with a Athlon 64 bit 3200+. 1024mb kvr40064c3a (400) in terms of RAM, and a 120gig Seagate SATA 8mb Hard Drive. I'm buying a generic sound card...Less than 20$ if I can, really("Sound PCI 5.1", I guess it'll be compatible with small surround speakers, aye?).


What's left? The most pricey! The most important for the games I play!!

The graphics card!!

9800XT? Hmm, either I'm blind or the place where I shop doesn't have it...There's only X800 or 9600XT :(

Check out the price list I provided with this post(prices on the right are when paid cash, to the left is credit). Which video card should I choose if I intend to play HL2, doom3, and farcry with MOST of the details upwards --> i.e. no need to max every slider out, but really, what I'd need is ABOVE AVERAGE --"high"-- performance and quality. I'm thinking either someone recommends a 289$ or a 640$ or so worth-of-a-card (bear in mind these are canadian prices). I'm still weighting the options...

I'm fine with games at 1024*768 and no anti aliasing. Bear that in mind, I'm no graphic freak but I don't want my game to be choppy. I like lighting effects, explosions, debris, decals, shadows, sprites, whatever you got. I like transparency too, with cool water effects. I don't need something out-of-this world such as anti aliasing on a 2048*1536 resolution...And if needs be I'd play games at 800*600 if it means better effects and whatnot.

Voets and NJS, you both seem to vouch for the ATI option. Plus, I hear Half-Life 2 is supposed to be BUNDLED with ati cards, which means it's the officially supported platform. So, now it narrows down to ATI cards. A regular 9800 pro@ +-280$? Or a more pricey one at +-620$? Is double the price REALLY double the performance?

So yeah...Graphic card's all that's left for me to look at. Thanks for your input.

If anyones knows them offhand, what's the advantage of buying windows XP PRO instead of HOME?

[Maxtr0sity]

If you're playing networked games such as LAN, Pro is easier to setup and handle, otherwise, Pro and Home run on the same platform.

[λ]

Thanks NJS :)
Help is very very much appreciated when it's on the matter of hundreds and thousands of dollars ;) Well, I'm now aiming towards a "ASUS K8V SE DX K8T800" (this long thing, and I haven't even typed its full name! *whew!*) with a Athlon 64 bit 3200+. 1024mb kvr40064c3a (400) in terms of RAM, and a 120gig Seagate SATA 8mb Hard Drive. I'm buying a generic sound card...Less than 20$ if I can, really("Sound PCI 5.1", I guess it'll be compatible with small surround speakers, aye?).


What's left? The most pricey! The most important for the games I play!!

The graphics card!!

9800XT? Hmm, either I'm blind or the place where I shop doesn't have it...There's only X800 or 9600XT :(

Check out the price list I provided with this post(prices on the right are when paid cash, to the left is credit). Which video card should I choose if I intend to play HL2, doom3, and farcry with MOST of the details upwards --> i.e. no need to max every slider out, but really, what I'd need is ABOVE AVERAGE --"high"-- performance and quality. I'm thinking either someone recommends a 289$ or a 640$ or so worth-of-a-card (bear in mind these are canadian prices). I'm still weighting the options...

I'm fine with games at 1024*768 and no anti aliasing. Bear that in mind, I'm no graphic freak but I don't want my game to be choppy. I like lighting effects, explosions, debris, decals, shadows, sprites, whatever you got. I like transparency too, with cool water effects. I don't need something out-of-this world such as anti aliasing on a 2048*1536 resolution...And if needs be I'd play games at 800*600 if it means better effects and whatnot.

Voets and NJS, you both seem to vouch for the ATI option. Plus, I hear Half-Life 2 is supposed to be BUNDLED with ati cards, which means it's the officially supported platform. So, now it narrows down to ATI cards. A regular 9800 pro@ +-280$? Or a more pricey one at +-620$? Is double the price REALLY double the performance?

So yeah...Graphic card's all that's left for me to look at. Thanks for your input.

If anyones knows them offhand, what's the advantage of buying windows XP PRO instead of HOME?

That's interesting.. I'd go with the 9800 Pro then. But it's only the XT models that get HL2 free ;)

I've got a 9800 XT (basically overclocked 9800 Pro 256mb) and I can play the new beta of CS: S (based on the HL2 engine) with settings on high at 1280x1024 with 2x Anti-Aliasing and still get 30-45FPS :)

[aknatn]

If anyones knows them offhand, what's the advantage of buying windows XP PRO instead of HOME?

I would'nt go with anything but Pro personally. There are several differences. For one Home will not authenticate to a network, if that's an issue. Plusmany tweaks are not supported and other features are turned off like IIS (the webserver). I f you like tweaking you computer and enjoy the benifits of Win2k, go Pro. Here is a link (top off google :player:) http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_home_pro.asp

[cooleyo]

That's interesting.. I'd go with the 9800 Pro then. But it's only the XT models that get HL2 free ;)
Hah! Only 300$ more to get HL2 free! (When it's not even available)!
Okay, heading for the 9800pro. Thanks guys!