The Great Os Debate!

[slickeye]

you know i was just updating my linux box today and i realized how stupid the world is. why does windows sell so much?? linux is free and everything works on it because someone has written a driver for everything. also, everything for Macs is made by apple or goes through extensive testing by them. its all made to work together seemlessly and no one even notices. the only thing they do notice is their problems with windows. microsoft would be nobody without windows, and were the ones who gave them power! lets live in OSX and be designers. or we can be coders and live in Linux. but we must protest this ridiculous display of ignorance that our world shows. whos with me!!

[.Matt]

me... i guess

[dreamer]

I love MAC OS

currently i run windows but i will upgrade to apple sooner or later. Y? cause i think max OS really does look good, its modern, kool and its something interesting you can come to everyday. I use it at school and boy i love it. Also i think MAC OS is more relible since its built on linux. Windows operating system is too widely aimed at for viruses and hackers.

[kirupa]

Waits for Hansel to post and for RB to follow a few seconds later with the propaganda pics hehe.

On another note, Windows all the way for me! There are far too many games and apps that I would have to give up in order to use alternative OS'es. And no, development tools for languages such as Scheme don't work well when emulated on other OS'es.

:ub:

[McGuffin]

Ugh, not another one of these.

[teet]

Windows = pretty darn good for what it has to do

Macs = Visually appealing and stable, but would face a lot of the same problems Windows faces if it became more prevalent

Linux = AWESOME...except for a high learning curve and few applications actually made for it (Macs used to have the same problem)

I think that sums it up pretty much...at least in my opinion.

-teet

[McGuffin]

I don't think Mac would face that problem, if it became overly prevalent. Its built on a solid core, and hasn't been hacked majorly yet. Then again, if Mac OS X became hacked up like Windows is, then any OS would fail along with it in the same situation.

[thoriphes]

Windows is more user-friendly that's why. and also with what most people do on computers today, Windows is probably the better choice. I mean, how many households actually want to setup servers or user their *nix box as a firewall? No, they want to surf on the internet and chat with friends, not to say you can't do that with linux, but it's the ease of use that Windows has.

I'm not siding with any single OS, I use both equally because I see equal use for both of them.

[minimalistik]

each os has its own problems, each of them has its own advantages and disadvantages, no os or software is 100% proof without errors. Its not which is better, like use windows os or use a mac, so what... will the outcome be different when you make a nice website? A lot of households across the world use windows the fact that its pretty much easy to use, icons and interfaces are easy to see and like little things like when you hit search it has the dog ;)

[grimdeath]

Trust me if Mac was as succesfull as windows they would get hacked almost as much as windows does the problem is most Mac users are designers not programmers, viruses do exist on macs theyre jsut not as wide spread as the windows versions are, anyways why only cause havok wiht 5 or 10% of the computer world when you can cause mass destructions wreaking 90% of the computer world by making a virus?? see what i mean??

Any Os that becomes as succesfull as windows will get hacked no matter what and yes linux is stabler but it too can be hacked, in the end nothing and no one is safe its just a matter of searching for a hole in the programming and exploit it thats why due to the large windows user base its easier and faster to get a virus because more people are looking for these holes in the security to exploit them. just my 2 cents ;)

They are all good i have em all i just use windows more because i can do everything i want.

[senocular]

where is that hansel :crazy:

[λ]

One of the reasons why Linux is more secure than windoze is actually because people are looking for bugs in the software. Because you can download the source, on popular, mission-critical software like Apache, chances are that each line of code has been gone over by ten people before.

Also, the user model and great variety of setups make Linux much harder to write malicious viruses for. As long as the virus isn't run as root, then the worst it can do is delete your home directory ;)


Windows is more user-friendly that's why

Actually, studies have shown that people totally new with computers find the command line much easier to understand. atm, I'm on my dad's laptop running xp. I find the lack of a proper command prompt with grep and sed and suchlike appalling. I don't find Windows any less user-friendly than my Gentoo/Gnome 2.6 box back home. As I've stated before, it's just a different way of doing things.

In fact, GNOME 2.6 has a new feature called "spatial orientation" that is meant to make much more sense to people new to computing. You can find a good article on it at http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,115411,00.asp :)

Admittedly, setting Linux up can be a total ***** if you're coming from a windows enviroment. But once it is set up, then Linux can do anything that you mentioned there, and a Windows user could pick a linux box right up and not suffer any productivity loss whatsoever.

[slickeye]

of course they all have problems! most us here are educated enough to realize this. and when i started this thread i was not meaning for it to be an argument whether or not the mainstream OS will have the most problems no matter what. the problem is, its not the in windows or its viruses. its the fact that its so unstable i can barely go through a whole project without having stability issues. on the apple however, this is no such problem. due to its unix core, everything either runs like a dream, or lets me fix the problem myself. this blue screen of crap is the worst idea anyone has ever had. right next to buying a microsoft OS

[ya3]

hmmm, i think M$ pretty much summed-up
their quality products and stability here:
http://www.cyberiapc.com/win98crash.htm

i mean, if i had AU$4000 to spare, i'd go out
and get a DP G4 and all my software
(which is my main reason of not switching).

its a good thing theyre starting to ship
win/mac versions of a lot of software in
the same box :)

[grinch]

Dual-boot windows and Linux... Thats the perfect match ;)

[ya3]

uh-huh.

does FlashMX run on Linux?
i think not.

so whats the point?

[λ]

uh-huh.

does FlashMX run on Linux?
i think not.

so whats the point?

wtf does that have to do with how good the OS is? I could name you a thousand pieces of quality Linux software that won't run on macs/windows/bsd/your os of choice.

anyway, http://frankscorner.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=28&page=1.

[ya3]

so?


i want flash.


what'll i do without flash?

[senocular]

Wine can run Flash on Linux, MM is working on getting Flash to run natively on Linux, other Flash alternatives have been created/are being created for Linux etc.

[ya3]

lol,
dont need to get technical,
i was just raising a point there :D

who knows, i might just do a
quick duallie of linux just to see
what it is...

[senocular]

It is a valid point though, there are a lot of "standard" applications that dont run on linux. But, for just about anything, there is an alternative that runs on Linux and with "emulators" like WINE, a lot of windows apps can be run on linux as well.

As Linux grows, you'll probably see more apps for it from major vendors. That may take a while though.

[ya3]

hmm, if i saw a big hit-you-in-the-face
advantage of using linux, i probably
would switch instantaneously.
i mean, switching to Mac is an even
bigger thing than switching to Linux,
but (given i had the funds) id make
the switch in a split-second.

whats so good about linux? (besides the UNIX stuff)

<dumb question>
oh, can you skin it to look like OS X? :D
</dumb question>

[λ]

hmm, if i saw a big hit-you-in-the-face
advantage of using linux, i probably
would switch instantaneously.
i mean, switching to Mac is an even
bigger thing than switching to Linux,
but (given i had the funds) id make
the switch in a split-second.

whats so good about linux? (besides the UNIX stuff)

<dumb question>
oh, can you skin it to look like OS X? :D
</dumb question>

stability, security, the open-source coolness, and infinite customizability.

Yes, you can skin it to look like OSX.. but imo the OSX look doesn't work unless you have all the apps looking like it as well..

[grinch]

yeah,
how could you say linux is pointless... You obviusly don't know the real power of Linux, and the crapiness of win32 ;)
Now mac on teh other hand... No way I need one of those :D
LINUX ALL TEH WAY!!

[slickeye]

someone needs to make a flash editor for linux. mac is hands down the superior OS, but like it has been said, it is pricey along with its software. linux is amazing and has no limits. i believe that an os can really only work well if its completely open or completely closed as apple. this brings a seemless user experience. windows got stuck in the middle and it sucks. ouch.

[grinch]

Yeah,
it's funny how many of us, and other people hate win32, but the thing this, for somereason I still have it.
Without Windows, and the darn people who only write great updates for it, I wouldn't be able to do much, like playing games and watching flashes ;)

[ya3]

hrmph!
well once you get over all those video games
(once you turn 12 or so), you'll have the freedom
to appreciate other operating platforms. I hate
it when people say: "oh, and how many games
are there for Mac? Breakout, super breakout..."
only the best (from my understanding) games
are released on Mac, not just any old game.

i mean, buying a cheap PC for games i can
understand, but if you buy a Mac to play
games: you should be shot with dual
sawn-off shotguns.

**** games. just annoys me how people
are just so serious about them.

[mdipi]

Hansel is here.

[slickeye]

what good are you? no wonder you have almost 8k posts. impressive, but not posts like that.

i am glad you are here

[teet]

**** games. just annoys me how people
are just so serious about them.

-I use my laptop and desktop for non-gaming associated activities around 95% of the time...but if I have a P4 processor with a decent video card and loads of RAM just sitting there it's nice to be able to play GTA or NBA Live (or practically any other game for that matter) every once in awhile. This is probably why I'll never be able to totally rid myself of Windows (unless they make a windows emulator that REALLY works well).

-The coolest thing about Linux is that it's totally free. A copy of XP Pro still runs around $200 and there is no telling how much osx ACTUALLY costs the buyer.

-People like to bash Windows all the time (heck, I even join in on occasion), but Windows XP is actually a really good operating system. It's driver database is HUGE...the days of scouring the internet for your modem/video/motherboard drivers are almost over. You just put it on and it works.

-It always irks me when people complain about having to update their windows machines all the time...would you rather not have the frickin' updates? It's not like macs and linux boxes are that secure either, it's just that nobody goes after them.

(sorry for the randomness of this post)

-teet

[λ]

-It always irks me when people complain about having to update their windows machines all the time...would you rather not have the frickin' updates? It's not like macs and linux boxes are that secure either, it's just that nobody goes after them.

Linux boxes are run by something like 20% of the server market.. believe me, people go after them all the time...

[ya3]

there is no telling how much osx ACTUALLY costs the buyer.

AU$229.00, and there's just ONE version.
no 'upgrade' or 'full version' or Home/Pro.
as opposed to XP Pro full at ~AU$600.


Linux boxes are run by something like 20% of the server market.. believe me, people go after them all the time.
what constitutes the other 80% ? Mac OS X Server :D ?

[λ]

AU$229.00, and there's just ONE version.
no 'upgrade' or 'full version' or Home/Pro.
as opposed to XP Pro full at ~AU$600.


what constitutes the other 80% ? Mac OS X Server :D ?

Unix, BSD and Windoze.. actually, I guess the percentage is more like 50%
I can't find any statistics on it though.. that's just a rough guess.

[iloveitaly]

umm mac and linux are built on unix which IS more secure than windows.

[senocular]

Unix, BSD and Windoze.. actually, I guess the percentage is more like 50%
I can't find any statistics on it though.. that's just a rough guess.

I think it might be more... 60% last I remember (I think) ... I could be off but its almost worth my looking it up - if I wasnt so lazy :) ... actually 60% does seem a little high. That figure might have included BSD and maybe Unix as well. bah I dont know :P

[teet]

AU$229.00, and there's just ONE version.
no 'upgrade' or 'full version' or Home/Pro.
as opposed to XP Pro full at ~AU$600.

No, no, no...I don't think you get my point...how much does it REALLY cost you???

You pay 2 to 3 times as much for a Mac as for a PC. I would like to really know how much you're paying for your operating system (like what percenage of the $3500 was actually for your operating system). Of course they can sell the new versions of the Mac OS cheaper if they already got your money when you bought it.

-teet

[slickeye]

you need to go shopping. first of all macs do things windows wont for a year or two. also my macs didnt cost three times as much as a pc. i bought a dual-1ghz fo 1700. if you can find a pc that will do what this one does, you might save a hundred or two but then again, apple has a full design team to support. think about it. im not trying to convince you but if all your info is wrong, its close to impossible for you to get the real picture.

oh and windows is not a really good operating system. thats why people hate it. and linux and OSX are PROVEN to be more stable. its not just cause they arent as popular.

[Kristopher]

ya3: that link is awesome!

[Hans Kilian]

Discussing which OS is better is pretty pointless IMO. You need to view your computer as a whole and include hardware and applications. What will get your job done easiest and for the lowest amount of money?
If you spend an average of an hour a week on compatibility stuff because your clients run another OS or other applications than you, you'd better switch fast because that hour a week could be used to make money instead.

The technical merits of the OS have very little to do with why people run it. As long as it's "good enough" people will happily run it. Technically excellent OS's have bitten the dust in the past. Just look at OS/2 and BeOS.

Personally, I run Windows on my desktops and laptops and Linux on my servers. I tried Windows on the servers, but I could never figure out which part did what. Linux seems more modular and easier to comprehend for me.
I've never had an Apple. I hear they're nice to work with, but I think Apple are way too protective of their rights to their technology. Anyway, Windows gets the job done and it's what all my clients run...

[slickeye]

ya3: that link is awesome! what link you talkin bout bro?

also, you mentioned that Apple is too protective. i agree. but, it is exactly this that makes them so fool-proof. no one is going to plug something into an apple that wont work right away. everything is really tight, but everything works seamlessly.

[Sushisource]

Well, here is my generally useless input. I run Windows, its the only thing iv'e ever run. And well, i hate it... It says to me "What?!?!? You want to DO work? Hell no!!!" And then it freezes. I'm about to pull up one of my old Dells from the grave and run linux on it and use it as a server, i can't wait.

[slickeye]

linux = pleasure

[senocular]

linux = headache
but
linux = adventurous headache where you get to learn a lot

[slickeye]

senocular = wise
linux = extremely useful

[teet]

you need to go shopping. first of all macs do things windows wont for a year or two. also my macs didnt cost three times as much as a pc. i bought a dual-1ghz fo 1700.

I just went online to the apple store...a new dual G5 with the cheapest monitor costs $3700. One of the best PC's from Dell costs under 2000 (you can build one on your own for MUCH cheaper).


first of all macs do things windows wont for a year or two.

like what? does it make your coffee for you? does it do your laundry?


oh and windows is not a really good operating system. thats why people hate it.

oh.....that really clears things up for me. windows sucks because people hate it...that makes so much sense now :)

please don't make empty statements...tell me the things your Mac can do that a PC can't...tell me why you don't like Windows. i'm not tring to be an ***, but this thread is about to turn into a flame war.

-teet

[senocular]

i'm not tring to be an ***, but this thread is about to turn into a flame war.

-teet

Really? :sure:

[slickeye]

haha teet what are you about 12? you quoted my post and then you said that win sucks because people hate it. thats not what i said. win sucks because it is instable, unefficient, and lacks some great software. no my mac does not make coffee for me. and the g5 is more expensive than the best dell because it is the fastest desktop in the world. pentium = 32 bit , g5 = 64bit at 2 ghz. thats twice as fast at the same speed of a 2 ghz P4. so if its a 3.2 p4 its like having a 4.0 p4 in relation. also, it renders video like no other, final cut pro and express beat everything thats offered on win. oh and one more thing, The top rated and used full audio production suite, ProTools, has not offered win support for the last 10 years. why??? because pentiums cant even handle it. i suggest teet do more research before making 'empty comments'.

you cant have a flame war if youre the only flame

[ya3]

lol, go slick!
what do ya have to say now, teet?

[kirupa]

Thread closed. Flame somewhere else kids ;)

[slickeye]

haha just wanted to openly apologize for the os debate. i wanted to the proven facts to be brought up, but my sarcasm got out of hand. thanks teet for being a player, and everyone go by a mac. peace.

[kirupa]

Merged your thread and closed :)