Sunday night Bush Speech

[pinx]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/07/bush.address.text/index.html

The government pays less than the amount he's asking for education this year, and I think that's pretty sad.

[fester8542]

What has to be done.... has to be done.

[pinx]

hmm, really?

well, what has to be done is to get this country back where the economy is supposed to be and to stop spending billions of dollars rebuilding the iraqi and afghani infrastructure, when the infrastructure at home is going downhill as we speak.

but i guess, what has to be done...has to be done, even if this country turns into a bunch of stupid, uneducated pricks.

[reverendflash]

what we need to do, IMO, is to figure out why over 12% of African American males between the ages of 18-30 are in Fed Prison, while only 1.2% of caucasians are in the same system.

we, as a society, have put an entire generation of one race away, and changed the lives of their loved ones forever, not to mention the men themselves.

we need to increase our education spending, and stop our building of more prisons. The war on drugs needs to be conceded.

And finally, we need to figure out a way to make the violent criminals productive to society in some way, rather than the leeches they are today...

::phew, glad to get that off my chest::

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

[BadMagick]

Originally posted by 11
what we need to do, IMO, is to figure out why over 12% of African American males between the ages of 18-30 are in Fed Prison, while only 1.2% of caucasians are in the same system.

we, as a society, have put an entire generation of one race away, and changed the lives of their loved ones forever, not to mention the men themselves.

Well, they seem to be there for a reason... They were tried, convicted, and placed in jail.

I'm white, and I come from the inner city, but you did not see me turn to drugs and violence as my "means of escape." There is no reason why that percentage should be so high, nor the reason the percentage of African Americans on welfare is so astronomically high compared to other races.

Also, shouldn't this be in the Ordered Forums?! hmmm...

[reverendflash]

Originally posted by BadMagick
Well, they seem to be there for a reason... They were tried, convicted, and placed in jail.

I'm white, and I come from the inner city, but you did not see me turn to drugs and violence as my "means of escape." There is no reason why that percentage should be so high, nor the reason the percentage of African Americans on welfare is so astronomically high compared to other races.

Also, shouldn't this be in the Ordered Forums?! hmmm...

1. just because they were tried, convicted, and placed in jail doesn't answer the question of how they got there, and why. This is a new stat, not one that has always been there.

2. Maybe as a white guy, you were given different options than the African American that lives next door to you.

3. don't suggest what forum any post should be in. That is what the mods are for.

4. you have a very ignorant view on life, and have shown this twice in as many days. I suggest you calm down your emotions before posting outbursts like you have recently.

Back to the very first point you make above. What is the reason the prisons are full of able bodied, intelligent African American males? Are you suggesting it is genetic? That they were destined to become criminals? What about their fathers? They weren't wards of the Feds... What opportunities did they have, that their sons don't?

It's people like yours that keep the ignorance and predjudice going in this country.

Do you actually think before hitting the submit button, or do you just go on instinct?

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

[BadMagick]

Originally posted by BadMagick
There is no reason why that percentage should be so high..
I said right there that there really is no reason, with affirmative action, and the welfare system in place, and (despite what some think) improvements in education that these men should have to result to the things that get them into prison.

No, I'm not saying at ALL that black men are inherently evil, or born criminals, but you say it yourself, the percentage of African Americans in jail is insane.

Please, don't tell me to keep my emotions in check, because the only "emotional outbreak" was last night in the Ordered forum. I was speaking plainly just now, not through my emotions.

[BadMagick]

Originally posted by 11
It's people like yours that keep the ignorance and predjudice going in this country.

Do you actually think before hitting the submit button, or do you just go on instinct?

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif
And PLEASE don't call me prejudice ... don't dare say that at all.

From kindergarden to the end of my days in high school, my best friends have all been either African American or Asian. My first girlfriend was Asian, and some of my favorite teachers in school were African American, Jewish, and from other walks of life. If there's one thing I am NOT, it is prejudice.

You can say all the negative things about me that you wish, I don't care at all because you don't really know who I am, but don't call me prejudice. Don't ever call me prejudice

[reverendflash]

then your plain speech is not based on emotions, just short sighted.

There must be a reason. It can't be genetic. It can't be because it's cool to go to prison...

There are cases being overturned every single day. Just last week, 2 men (SodaPop Galt & his friend) were released from prison due to evidence now brought to light, that the cops buried at the time, that proves their innocence...

How many more criminally innocent are in prison? Who knows. One is too many.

You don't think there is anything wrong with the justice system? Or that the Police don't racially profile their busts? And way beyond that... what options do they have to get out of their life (the prisons are not only filled with inner city youths... there are a lot of "suburbans" spending time in prison as well) ...

Sometimes, just walking down the street can land you in jail, if you look the profile...

I just hope that you are never in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and get tossed into a group of people who get railroaded and put in prison for something that you didn't have anything to do with, just because you don't look like the type of person who is innocent...

life is not black and white. It is a range of greys...

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

[fester8542]

Originally posted by pinx
hmm, really?

well, what has to be done is to get this country back where the economy is supposed to be and to stop spending billions of dollars rebuilding the iraqi and afghani infrastructure, when the infrastructure at home is going downhill as we speak.

but i guess, what has to be done...has to be done, even if this country turns into a bunch of stupid, uneducated pricks.

Whatever you say superstar.

Im sure you know far better than anyone else.

[reverendflash]

Originally posted by BadMagick

I'm white, and I come from the inner city, but you did not see me turn to drugs and violence as my "means of escape." There is no reason why that percentage should be so high, nor the reason the percentage of African Americans on welfare is so astronomically high compared to other races.



I'm sorry, this sounded like a racially based statement. Like just because I'm white, and I didn't end up in crime, must make this a black thing...

And for the record, even biggots have minorities as friends. They just think that they aren't biggoted. My father is one. Then again, he is 65 years old, and is difficult to change.

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

[BadMagick]

So you're saying Rev, that the reason so many African Americans are in jail is because they were unjustly put there? If not all of them, then a good number of them? What about the number of the 1.2% of white males who are in jail unjustly? Do you fight for them with the same fervor, or is 1.2 such a small percentage it doesn't warrant a fight?

I do have problems with the judicial system. It's absurd that someone can kill a baby and get 3 years in jail for it, but some people who are innocent get life without. I never said that the judicial system was a good one, or that it never makes mistakes.
Many people seem to have a way of putting words in my mouth that I never said.

You said that 1 person injustly placed in jail is too many. It's wrong, yes, but nothing can be perfect, and you can't expect it to be.

"For the record," I'm not your father, so don't place me in the same class as him.

[reverendflash]

I never said you were my father. It was just an example in response to your stated "I have black friends, so I can't be racist" analogy.

I'm not saying they are all, or even a majority of them are innocent. I am saying that society has made very few options available to African Americans who want to support a family. Some of them caused by African Americans themselves.

My point is... that we, as a society, owe it to ourselves to educate our youth, all of our youth, to the best possible quality. IMO, education is the only way out of this spiral. That means education of suburban WASPs to what it means to grow up as an African American in the City today, to that kid who has never been withing 10 feet of a computer, except to whack someone over the head while leaving the ATM...

But just saying that if they are there, then they must deserve to be there is just ignorant of the issue, and prolonging the source problem.

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

[prstudio]

statistics aren't a justification of a means or the causality for a change

why are we even looking at color? why don't we look at males in prison vs. females in prison? oh wait, that statistic isn't as skewed...or is it?

color/race should not be an issue in a debate...if you say, well its a glaring fact so it has to be, then you are part of the problem- because in order to think outside the box, you have to step outside of it

my argument would be...

this time when we do the statistical analysis lets not even calculate race comparisons, instead lets focus on demographics and educational and family background...not color topics; so we can be sure people in online discussion forums don't make it an issue, because talking about the color problem being a problem is in fact a problem in itself...

and i find it really funny black and white...who is really those colors? I'm not white, my skin may be lighter than most, but I'm not white...I'm a mix of czech/jewish area and irish... and my mother is spanish looking but not spanish...so what does white and black really do for statistics...it screws the crap outta them

back on topic tho- the amount of money we have saved for the war machine is incredible...he isn't even beginning to tap our resources...does that mean that the money going to Iraq should go to the schools...no..

it has already been budgeted for-
instead at the next budget meeting re-allocate money to education... i agree we need more money in certain places..but at the same time there are plenty of kids excelling at the local library who might otherwise lack a quality education...

roots...the problems lie there...if we are to discuss this we must analyze the roots because each topic on the surface is dependent on another until it reaches a point- and if we focus on those points a civil conversation not riddled with sarcasm should ensue

whew
i'm going to go get carpal tunnel surgery now

[pinx]

Originally posted by fester8542
Whatever you say superstar.

Im sure you know far better than anyone else.

i'm sure that i know far better than you, that's for sure. you proved that one.

but the statement wasn't directed at you at all, so what are you getting all weird about?