Good Parts of Communism?

[Yeldarb]

i've been looking for good parts of communism for a school project, but cant find any. all i find is anti-communist sites... is there anything good about communism?

[Maxtr0sity]

Me.:P

I'm a commie.

[Yeldarb]

i found this... but it's not much help
www.cpusa.com
at some parts i wanted to rip my monitor apart because these people's ideas are so WRON-- misguided...
i couldnt find them say anything really good, all they did was defend themselves, but they didn't really do that good of a job...

[Maxtr0sity]

Well, I did live in China for the beginning years of my life, so, I have a pretty good idea on whats going on over there.

[pinx]

it's good in theory.

[Maxtr0sity]

From what I been through, life isn't much different. The government isn't strict at all, for all I know, life was the same there as it was here. The only difference would be if you're an adult in the government stuff, I think thats the only problem.

[cosine]

Your best bet is to read the early works of the Communist revolution esspecially Marx. Back then it was an ideal not a regime. The even steven feel Communism is supposed to have was merely corrupted to the point where it did more harm than good.

[RelandR]

In the strictest theoretic model -> Yes

..all for one ... one for all ...

(read: commune / co-op)

...but in practice, most people will allways strive to be *king of the hill* and therefore it becomes a virtual impossibility

[Yeldarb]

yeah, but the fact that people are lazy by nature makes it all screwed up, plus, it doesn't even sound good in theory, the only people it would be good for are the people who are REALLY poor, and hardly make or dont make enough money to support themselves. for the majority of people, they are giving up the stuff they worked hard for.

[Maxtr0sity]

Commies aren't lazy if they're commies. You will NOT survive in China if you're lazy, there is no social security, or any other crap that'll help you. If you're lazy, you're on the streets to be slapped at.

Balance in the society is good in a sense. No one is too rich in the end, and then no one is really that poor either.

[Yeldarb]

what do you mean?
in my understanding, doctors make the same amount as french friers, what is the incentive to be a doctor and work A LOT harder for the same amount of money?
plus doesn't everything belong to the community, thus communal food? and housing?

[Maxtr0sity]

Yes, communal mostly, but you get used to it and it has its benefits. In China, doctors do make the same amount of money as french friers, but they would not be living in the same neighborhood.

[RelandR]

Lazy and / or powerGreedy both screw the idea all up ... rendering the whole thing an unachievable fantasy

but the theory basically states that all work equally and all share equally so therefore no-one gets more or less than anyone

It doesn't necessarily assume the transition from one system or another, but outlines the end result wherein all share equally

[Yeldarb]

why not? isn't that what communism is? how could they afford to be in a better neighborhood? oh... wait... the government picks where they live?

[BadMagick]

Communism? Or SOCIALISM? Cause if you're looking for things about Russia, you won't find anything on COMMUNISM ... cause Russia (USSR) was socialist.

Communism is basically no government authority at all. People each do their own thing for the good of the group. If a guy doesn't work the plumbing, there's no water. In turn, someone else will do their job in order to help out the plumber.

You should try looking at BOOKS! OH dear Lord, I said it! YES! Books are really good for stuff like this! The Internet is not as great for research as some think it is...

[Yeldarb]

no, not socialism, communism, i'm not researching russia, just communism in general
books!!??!! :(

[BadMagick]

Yeah, man! Books ... the library! They have them there!! It's good stuff

[Yeldarb]

im in the library, but i try to stay away from the "book" section...

[RelandR]

well I just Googled *communism* and there is plenty there that is not "anti"

ie: http://www.marxists.org

[RelandR]

Originally posted by Maxtr0sity
Yes, communal mostly, but you get used to it and it has its benefits. In China, doctors do make the same amount of money as french friers, but they would not be living in the same neighborhood.

there may some perks to being a doctor over a fryer and therefore exists an incentive to try to be one and not the other
...but when the ruling class gets to decide who can and who can't be admitted (and not nec. on academic measure alone) into the 'better' fields you get doctors that are politically connected rather than specifically more qualified.

Also: there is no incentive to be a better doctor or fryer than anynoe else in your group

...why work harder than anyone else if there is no reward for it ???

[Maxtr0sity]

Don't start insulting 'my group' until you've lived in the society. Don't make me wip out some asian on your arse for this.

[RussianBeer]

Its all too true about the political apptitude not proffecional apptitude that can set you higher than the others in communism. Not always but sometimes.

But, the incitive (again in theory) first there is a few perks for being a doctor givien by the goverment then they assume that people who want to be doctors ot for the money but for the fact that you are saving lives and helping others, as well as working conditions suck when you are a fryier.

I mean, even now; how many people go to become workers JUST for the money? If some do, they drop out pretty fast.

Other benifets of communism is; everyone is taken care of, medicare, education etc.. its all the same for everyone. And in theory there is no conflict between classes, between the upper and the middle or lower class. (Portelatrian and Bourgoise)

.... THis should be posted in Ordered if you want good answers...

Where is the pink commie upuaut when you need him! :sure:

[Maxtr0sity]

Mod should move this to Ordered, this is a discussion not to be taken lightly to me.:sure:

[Black_Lightning]

Originally posted by RussianBeer
Other benifets of communism is; everyone is taken care of, medicare, education etc.. its all the same for everyone. And in theory there is no conflict between classes, between the upper and the middle or lower class. (Portelatrian and Bourgoise)


in theory there is no difference between upper and middle class. But there was definatly difference between members of the communist party and the rest of the ppl.

Anyway, though ppl bash it communism did many good things for russia, in times of the tsars russia had high illiteracy, no good central command since the tsar mostly looked out for their own wallet instead of the country and little industry.

Under communism russia went from under 50% literacy to almost 100 %, there was a bloom in industry, and healthcare was greatly improved.


...why work harder than anyone else if there is no reward for it ???
one of the greatest flaws in communism imo, this also created the problem with ppl having to stand in line for ages at shops because they were empty.

[RelandR]

Originally posted by Maxtr0sity
Don't start insulting 'my group' until you've lived in the society. Don't make me wip out some asian on your arse for this.

excuse me ?

where did I insult you ?

...grow up

BTW... "group" was meant to be occupational group...

also learn to read :sure: and if you're going to threaten me , you better come privately and be prepared - this is not the place for childish BS

[RussianBeer]

Under communism russia went from under 50% literacy to almost 100 %, there was a bloom in industry, and healthcare was greatly improved.

You forgot to mention that population was also cut by 50%. The insane industrialisation was to sudden and done in such a wrong way.

Communism (or Leninism) in russia was 50% good and 50% bad...
YEs we were a super-power under it. Good healthcare, good education and good economy (good as in better that under tsar). But so many people died in the process its not funny. So many liberties we never new. So much bs over they years.. *sigh*

LOL RelandR

Yeah, everyone watchout... for all we know RelandR can be a viet-nam vet.... :sure:

[Black_Lightning]

indeed russianbeer....

i know ther was quite a decrease in population, but the guy that started the topic asked to focus on the good side so i did (mostly)...

there were a lot of things wrong with communism, for a fact they developped a whole new system for science/history so it would fit with marxistic beliefs...

the whole darwinistic evolution theory was considered wrong because it was in conflict with the "everybody is equal" idea.

You are right bout the 50% good and 50% bad, for every good there is a bad... but is the same with every system. Democracy is flawed in some aspects to.

[kirupa]

Instead of moving this thread - littered with "randomness" - feel free to continue the conversation here: http://www.kirupaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23138&perpage=15&highlight=communism&pagenumber=2

There are some really good responses by several of the members here.

[BadMagick]

I was going to say that, but Phil just did ... Communism works on paper, but it would never succeed in practice because of 1 major issue, and that's the nature of man.

Face it - everyone wants to have just a little bit more than the next guy

[RussianBeer]

Where did you hear that in Communism that dont beleive the darwin theories... I dont think thats true...
Show me a source.

[Black_Lightning]

Euhm it was a documentary on a local television network . About russian science. The way they made a stunning breakthrough on some fields (like conservation of the body of lenin) and on other fields they didn't make much progress because they didn't want to support theories that went in against communistic ideals. Because darwinism kindof supports the theory: right of the strongest, instead of all are equal.

i'm sorry, i can't offer you any concrete sources on paper.

for the rest Badmagick en pj, tis true communism works only on paper, but it's the same with democracy. In theory it works but in practice there is still poverty, crime, etc.... In the end there is no perfect government system.... no mather how you turn it, there are always the same kind of ppl at the top. There for their own advantage and not for the ppl.

[RussianBeer]

Black lightining can you explain a bit more, I am very intrested in this, I never heard of this... But isnt one of Darwin's theory not 'right of the strongest' but survival of the fittest?

See , most communist leaders are athiest so I would think they beleive in evolution:

http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/hscom.htm

[Black_Lightning]

yes, survival of the fittest that's what i meant :)... In the documentary they explained that this theory stood directly against the principle that all men are equal.

Interesting article you provide there. Could be the makers of the documentary gave a one-sided view on the ussr science, or they exagerated the fact that theory's weren't taken for granted in the ussr.

Anyhow, gotta go now, interesting discussion, i'll be looking into it again when i get back on monday :)

later all