Opinions on this site

[emanik]

Would like to know what everyone thinks about this site, located at:
www.mediaspawn.com

Thanks

[Zaiah]

Well I'm a newbie but I think it's nice. I like the colors and the layout.

1. The nav is a little choppy. But that is expected with images. I'm working on learning CSS to get rid of it on my own site. So far it's great and doesn't use a lot of code. You might want to think about trying it out. Although the site is nice, I'm sure if someone had to open it thru a dial-up they'd be discouraged.

2. Also, you might want to easy up on the drop shadows. If you have them every where it kind of looses it's kick.

3. I would bring those phone numbers down some. Just so they line up with the top or bottom of the remaining header text.

4. Also in the header looks really choppy. Not sure why, I have a decent video card and monitor. But I think I would either shift the transparent ghost image thingy over to the left or right. Having the crest of it in the center doesn't work for me. And whats wrong with the reflection of the word "DEVELOPERS"? It just looks like a solid block.

>>I just thought something, you can't use CSS for this type of navigation because of the glossy boxes right? Can one of the guru's address this? And could this site be layed out completely without using frames?<<

But again, it looks great so far. I also like some of the stuff in the portfolio section :)

[mikken]

^ Doesn't use a lot of code? This is Dreamweaver hell! And it's even table layouts! Outrageous! ... or maybe you were talking about your own page...

The page itself got too much going on. I dislike the TV-ad like frame - why not just type the text so the user can read it at their own speed, instead of waiting to be fed line by line while staring at some cheesy woman?

My impression is that it's cluttered and unstructured. And personally, i wouldn't trust webdev's that are using dreamweaver to produce sites, but that's another debate. And i would drop the 'process' page - it's obvious and newbee-ish

This site is totally doable with css and without frames, but you can't achieve the glossy effect without using images of course.

But i have to say it again, the markup is horrible, i'm surprised that it displays ok. Not everybody cares about tidy markup, but webdevelopers that can't produce valid html for their own pages should be avoided.

I hate to say it, but your previous site was MUCH better.

[hybrid101]

the source dude...
though yeah, it could use less colors, i'd rather that be in flash or you use css on your pages:D

[doctor_funk]

It looks like a massproduced template. There's nothing original or unique. If you're going to integrate every service known to mankind into a website, then please do something different or unique. Here are examples of real designs, not ones based on templates:

http://www.sapient.com/
http://www.arnoldworldwide.com/splash.cfm
http://www.trinitynet.com

They're all multi-service ad agencies with original websites that don't look like templates. Those are industry leaders. I know this is not your original design because that first Flash image is here too: http://www.slideshare.net/trib/liberate-your-control-freaks/

[Pasquale]

the page load is quite heavy.
gradients on the bottom content boxes look a bit cheesy

[Zaiah]

[quote=mikken;2147384]^ Doesn't use a lot of code? This is Dreamweaver hell! And it's even table layouts! Outrageous! ... or maybe you were talking about your own page...


Dude read my post again. lol. I was saying that I was experimenting with CSS and it doesn't use as much code:beer:

[Zaiah]

Damn this is a tough crowd. You gotta have thick skin to post on this forum. Can I make a suggestion as a newbie? Instead of just slamming people and their design and programming skills, can you guys help us newbies out by offering examples of your personal work and then telling us how you might have developed it? This way we have some insight on how things were done. Sure you can list a ton of nice sites as long as my arm. But if we (the newbies) have no idea of how they were put together, it's not as helpful. I almost get the impression from reading a lot of the critiques some of the experts forget where they came from and that they almost feel like, "if you're not on my level, then you shouldn't be doing this, especially not for money" Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

And Mikken, what's wrong with using Dreamweaver to develop sites? Isn't that what it's for? I think I know where you are going with that comment though. My first experience with web development (and someone can take a stab at me for using the words "web development", since techincally I'm not a web developer) was in Dreamweaver and after studying the code, I'm starting to move away from it. Kind of like training wheels. But it isn't it a decent program for developing sites? I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the issue. You can send me a private message if you don't want to post it here.

I guess what I'm trying to say in all of this is, everybody has to start some where. You start at the bottom and work your way up. Then once you get to the top and get comfortable, technology advances and you find that are some where in the middle:)

[Phenex]

The only reason why the tougher newbies at kF succeed is because of the toughest crowd. Go to any other site and all you'll get is praises even if you've done nothing at all.

Gold becomes gold only because it passes through fire. ;)

I know sometimes it can seem harsh and sometimes it really IS harsh. But if you focus more on the attitude than the what is actually intended, you won't be able to get anywhere.

You also need to understand that sometimes a particular work really isn't good at all. Even the experts here are people. They have a right to get pissed off! :thumb2:

And about examples, well the best examples are the sites that are mentioned. We do not spoon feed, neither do I, personally, believe in spoon feeding someone or being spoon fed. You've been given some of the best references, it is now YOUR job to go through their code and try and recreate the same and learn from that. And people usually feel bad when someone tells them to do some RnD on their own.

Go figure ;)

[doctor_funk]

What does emanik have to say then?

Personally, I just want to be straight and honest. What's wrong with Dreamweaver you ask? It's not purely written by hand, that's the thing. It's like asking someone to bake some cookies. It's easy to tell the difference between cookies made from scratch and cookies made from a mix, right? There are subtle differences in taste that people may notice. There are also subtleties which the contributing developers on this forum can notice. Since they're excited to get you into hand coding, it's probably their way of expressing that by putting Dreamweaver down. Don't forget that there's no way or knowing people's emotions on this forum as everything is typed.

[Zaiah]

The only reason why the tougher newbies at kF succeed is because of the toughest crowd. Go to any other site and all you'll get is praises even if you've done nothing at all.

Gold becomes gold only because it passes through fire. ;)

I know sometimes it can seem harsh and sometimes it really IS harsh. But if you focus more on the attitude than the what is actually intended, you won't be able to get anywhere.

You also need to understand that sometimes a particular work really isn't good at all. Even the experts here are people. They have a right to get pissed off! :thumb2:

And about examples, well the best examples are the sites that are mentioned. We do not spoon feed, neither do I, personally, believe in spoon feeding someone or being spoon fed. You've been given some of the best references, it is now YOUR job to go through their code and try and recreate the same and learn from that. And people usually feel bad when someone tells them to do some RnD on their own.

Go figure ;)


I totally understand and agree about the hand-holding and spoon-feeding. I train people everyday and I hate it when they just look at me with a totally dumbfounded face and say "what do I do now?" But if I just give them samples with not much direction and just tell them their work sucks...They might not benefit from it. Well I can't wait to get to the superior level of programming and design where I can start telling people they suck:)

[Zaiah]

What does emanik have to say then?

Personally, I just want to be straight and honest. What's wrong with Dreamweaver you ask? It's not purely written by hand, that's the thing. It's like asking someone to bake some cookies. It's easy to tell the difference between cookies made from scratch and cookies made from a mix, right? There are subtle differences in taste that people may notice. There are also subtleties which the contributing developers on this forum can notice. Since they're excited to get you into hand coding, it's probably their way of expressing that by putting Dreamweaver down. Don't forget that there's no way or knowing people's emotions on this forum as everything is typed.


I do understand about tone and emotion. I get that. Things typed may come off then they are intended.

Well let me ask a different question...What are the benefits to coding by hand. I know the code is smaller and not as robust. And I know that can reduce load times, but what are the other benefits? Just curious. And I hate quickmix cookies!

[Phenex]

I still can't find that answer simplistik once gave about people who snob about not using Dreamweaver. It's something so direct and concise that anyone will agree.

Something like... "as if using notepad makes them better" or something like that.

Using Dreamweaver is fine. More efficient. All we want.

[Phenex]

Had to post this separately.

Found it:


Mac - TacoEdit
PC - Dreamweaver, NotePad++

I find a lot of ppl who swear by notepad kinda pretentious as if because they use it, it some how makes them a better coder.

:thumb2:

[Zaiah]

Had to post this separately.

Found it:



:thumb2:

I know I started this...and now I am kind of changing sides. But knowing how to code by hand does make you a better coder, right? Just like being able to make a cake from scratch...I had to update a site recently for someone. They just came out of no where and asked me to change some stuff on their site and I wasn't at home on my favorite computer with Dreamweaver 8 and all my favorite extensions. So I was like "not right now, you'll have to wait until I get home, later on tonight. Give me about 3 hours". She was like "No I can't wait that long" she dropped her head and a small tear ran down her face onto her white blouse that. The tear began to settle into the fabric, making it slightly transparent. I stepped closer, not only to get a better look, but to look her in the eyes. I gently lifted her head and assured her that help had arrived. I took her by the hand and whispered in her ear..."where's your computer?" Her soft hand grasped onto mine, with such strength that my pinky finger became knumb as she pulled me down a long narrow hallway. She opened the room to her bedroom and in the far corner was the oldest computer I had ever seen. It didn't have an on/off switch, but a pullcord. After cranking it up and waiting almost 30 minutes to connect to her ftp thru her NETZERO connection, I began coding in notepad. Coding like I had never coding before. There was no WYSISYG, no help menu, no snippets. Just me and notepad and with each < / and > I typed, her faith in miracles grew. And that night, I became her hero, in more ways than one...:hugegrin:

[Phenex]

Hmmm... Changing sides? Your wish. I'm still where I was.

I <3 Dreamweaver! Only regret - No DW when modifying various CMS'. Not even Notepad. ;)

[negativecreep]

This thread has been SOOO hi-jacked.

[shane-c]

^ Well, the original poster hasn't replied to any of the initial critiques yet (which I'm sure 98% of us agree with), so it makes it hard to stay on topic. Anyway, Zaiah's story captured my heart and imagination, so I'm not complaining....

[mikken]

Oh man Zaiah... All apologies. like Kurt Coabin said in the mid-nineties. :love:
All apologies again, i've been celebrating sum'thin tonite so maybe i'm not too coherent:
My impression is that sometimes entries in the C&C forum only gets thumbs-up by yay-sayers, while the product shown doesn't live up to the credit given.
That's why I sometimes try to be the realistic counterpart. You won't evolve if you're always patted on your back. I know.

And Zaiah: There is absolutely nothing wrong with using dreamweaver to produce sites, that is indeed what it is for - but Dreamweaver don't automatically produce sites with correct markup, and as webdesigners, that is exactly what you should try to do. Why? That is another thread, i believe.

And for the notepad arguement: anyone looking at the HTML for that page MUST agree that it's not good (Christ it even has three body tags(!)). The code doesn't validate, and a webdev should write code that validates. If you do it in DW or NP is all the same, but DW makes so many things so "easy" that you might forget to pay attention to them, and they end up wrong. If anyone got discouraged by my comment i apologize, but i always try to point at things to make it better.