Movie: Matrix2 (WARNING: SPOILER AHEAD!!!)

[Rockstar]

Ok, its 1:15am, just watched Matrix 2: Reloaded.

so.. as I said.. spoiler ahead.. youve been warned.


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ok that enough I guess :)



I'm sooo soooo sooooooo (totally) dissapointed!!

The part where Neo made love with trinity.. it was just stupid, it was too longggg, what was the point of making that section + that stupid dance party that long?? so pointless..

the most dissapointed part was the ending.. they tried to make the ending looks like LOTR, I dont know why they have to do that, afterall I know that neo will wake up from coma and kick that bastard's ***.. so that's more like a soap opera to me.

oh did you still remember the part where trinity died and then neo was like grabbed her heart, and she went back to livfe?.. that was ridiculous, that was so cheap..
and it became so weird if you look back when morpheus injected something to her, and she died (although Im pretty sure that Neo had saved her at that time) it was like morpheus was trying to kill her for no reason.. and the story just went on like that.. it didn't say why morpheus did that.

and not mention that he could fly now, faster than superman.. so weird..

overall I give the movie 4 of 10, 4 because of the stunning visual fx, great 3D and stuff.

dont get me wrong Im matrix fans, Ive been waiting for this movie for such a long time, and im so disappointed.

[Kajinku]

NOOOOOOOO!!! WHY?? :scream:
I'm going to see it on Friday (tomorrow)... some people say it's really kickass and good, others say the exact same things that you said. It's like the movie doesn't make sense. Now I really hope *I* will like it. I don't want the same effect as "The Phantom Menace". It's not because there's STAR WARS on the poster that it *has* to be good. Well, same thing with The Matrix now. Anyway, I'll watch it before giving any comments...

[vts31]

the movie was not a dissapointment.

I think it was a good movie but with some definate problems in the music and editing departments. it left a lot of things left to be answered. I agree that its not the same as before...but if looked at closely not a dissapointment.

[Kajinku]

Ah, good. =)

You're not one of those people that think "The Phantom Menace" was actually good are you? ;)

[SureShot]

My god - I totally disagree.


I went and viewd a show last night at midnight and have to say that I wanted to line up again right after to watch it for a second time. I thought they did a fantastic job on this film. You say the part where neo and trinity made love was long and boring...? I thought it moved the story along and really set up the two characters well for the rest of the movie - very well done.

As for him bringing her back to life - that was great! It's kind of like what happend in the first only this time it was the other way around, I dont understand how you didnt like that...?

The music was great - so well done for this movie - perfect soundtrack for the Matrix... very good.

The ending was perfect. Made me wish that the next one was coming out in 6 days, not 6 months - I think they eneded it right. As for him waking from the coma to kick ***... how do you know he is even back out of the matrix right now? Kind of strange how he could feel the machines all of the sudden. There are just too many theroys now and that's amazing - set's up the 3rd one perfectly. My buddy and I talked about it the whole ride home - there were like 10 different possibilites that we came up with :)

As for him being able to fly - wow. It was so well done. I mean if he is "the one" he really wouldnt have any limits so it makes sence. That last scene when he saves Trinity and is flying really fast... I couldnt belive it.

Overall the movie rocked. If you are a DIE HARD matrix fan you might have some problems with it as none of these guys ever likes the second as much as they did the first. The first time it was a totally new experience, you didnt know what to expect. The second one you knew what you were going to get - just not HOW you were going to get it. I loved it. The story was great. The special effects were out of this world. Great.

[Kajinku]

Cool, thanks for your review! I can't wait!
Besides, about the whole "hey... he flies!" thing, the first movie actually *ends* with Neo flying.

[Niann]

I thought it was ok... I thought the Dance/Love scene could have been moved along a bit more quickly, but all in all I think it was important to see how the people of Zion lived, and interacted with each other. I really liked the Architect I thought that was an awesome scene, and it really surprised me with the plot twist. The highway chase segement was well done I think, and the door/keymaker thing was a cool concept as well. For a Sci-fi film there were some original ideas behind it. =0)

Cheers!
-Niann

[Rockstar]

hahahaha my friend called me just now, and she said.. the movie was absolutely rockzzzzzzzz :)

when the movie ended, i heard lots of ppl complained and stuff.. but I gotta admit, that the visual fx was so amazing don't you think guys.. especially at the begining of the movie, it was so amazing..

I guess it depends, just like my friends told me that they didn't like the Xmen2, I said.. WHATTTTTTTT??

[Rockstar]

yeah kinda agree with vts31 with the editing issue..

kajinku: dont worry my friend, I heard lots of ppl gave the movie lots of credits on my way to the parking lot... but still some of them were grumbling incl me :)

[vts31]

here are some food for thought.

How was neo able to control the sentinels!?

Is it a matrix inside a matrix and thats why agent smith isin the real world. Its obvious that the machiens need NEO because he is the one that is responsible for bringing purpose to the .1% of the population who rejects the matrix. but he ultimatly( previous version) reloads the matrix. Obviously this one is different because he chooses to save trinity. At the begining we see her die because its what happened in the previous generation of the matrix. I know that agent smith has a big part in this but im not sure what. BTW trailer for revolutions was roxor.


here are some more. I guess the year is closer to 2799 than 2199 because there have been 6 matrices each 100 year time span plus the perfect one that failed. Maybe neo is a program all along.


i disagree about the music. i thought the sound effects were better but the music SUCKED horribly. The orchestra music during the fighting scenes made them feel ackward. and editing...it feels like someone shot AWESOME film and then had george lucas edit it. BTW i'm not a fan of episode 1,2

[Jubba]

Well like the reviews that Senocular posted a while ago, I will say this:

I haven't seen it yet. I'm going to soon (in about 8 hours). But you can't expect this one to live up to the first one. There are a couple of reasons for this... mainly because the shock value is gone. If you had never seen Matrix 1 and didn't even know what it was, would this movie have blown you away? You can't raise the bar with the second film because the first one set it so high.

I'll post what I think after I watch it tonight.

[UncleGuito]

dude, thats bull. im soo excited when i get to see it because its not only the MATRIX, but the first rated R movie i get to see in theaters because im only 14. i even made myself a special footer. hope u like it. anyways, my paretns need to know why its rated r beofre i see it so why is it rated R?

[replode]

kajinku, thats what i plan to do. my friend and i might get check out of school, because the theater might not be as full during the work day. Im really excited, it gives me a lot to look forward to during school:)

[vts31]

Originally posted by UncleGuito
dude, thats bull. im soo excited when i get to see it because its not only the MATRIX, but the first rated R movie i get to see in theaters because im only 14. i even made myself a special footer. hope u like it. anyways, my paretns need to know why its rated r beofre i see it so why is it rated R?

HAHAHAHA...it feels like another life time when i had to worry about things like this. Why dont you try sneaking in? and since when do parents care about what their kids see? jk

[thoriphes]

i thought the second matrix was great. though not as compelling as the first one. there weren't that many surprises in this one, visually, but i liked how the story evolved. it's a shame it ended so abruptly. now i can't wait to watch animatrix.

[senocular]

Originally posted by vts31
i thought the sound effects were better but the music SUCKED horribly. The orchestra music during the fighting scenes made them feel ackward.

AH! Im glad you agree with me on that. That was a dissappointment for me as well, especially in the 1st neo vs 100 smiths fight. IT totally threw me off. None of the other people I was with noticed it though.

All in all though I enjoyed myself. The beginning was a little slow and I think the zion-orgy wasnt quite all that necessary - the insight into the culture of zion didnt seem to really fit with the rest of the movie, though I can see where it might have its appeal. The fight seens were mostly well done and contain all the effects youd expect and more (and are pretty long for your average fight seen, but they're visual feasts that are worth sitting through) and the discoveries and information revealed at the end were a great insight into what the matrix was really about - how deep it goes and the symbiotic the machines have with man; much which was discussed earlier in the movie in zion.

Yes the twins needed more screen time, and yes, most of the effects are seen in the trailers, but its a pretty fun ride. To me it just seems like too much was crammed into this one movie - something that should have taken 2 or 3.... the twins, persephone, zion, etc., which we'll see more in revolutions, but seemed to have been rushed here. IMHO




Im seeing it again saturday :)

[vts31]

i literaly cringed at the music

[thoriphes]

hey, Rob Dougan isn't a back composer. he just didn't make his best stuff for this movie. my personal favorite of his is still Clubbed to Death from the first movie.

[upuaut]

I'm down with you both on that one. The music was not even close to what I had hoped for. Luckily musical score probebly one of my least important benchmarks. I understand how it can **** with a movie though. Just watch Lady hawk sometime and try to imagine it with a good musical score. It really would have been better than Willow.

Back to the matrix.

I gave it a 7 out of 10, with the first movie being a 9.

I watched the zion dance scene and felt exactly the same way about it and the love making. It's forgiven though. It was really important at this point in the trilogy to give us a look at Zion and the culture there. You have the conversation with Neo and the councelor in the engineering section, which was vital, but other than that, they just needed filler to show us around the place. The love scene probebly would have been better if they had not done it at all. I would have liked to see circumstances prevent them from making love. However, the producers probebly have an idea for "pregnancy" by the third movie, or felt that no one would have believed the love that was "required" to save trinity, unless they went this way. Personaly, being a victem of true love, I don't need such things to show me that two people love each other. Sex certainly isn't what makes love. So I guess I found it to be unnecessary, but understandable from a marketing perspective.

Neo effecting the sentenals in "reality". That's not too hard to understand. He is the anomaly which bridges the gap between machine and man. He's there to set them free just as much as he is there to set humanity free.

More food for thought: Choice of Trinity. Trinity is a metaphor for the Catholic Church. The cycular rebirth of both Neo, the matrix, and Zion, is a metaphor for Toaism. What is the impact of making a decission to remove one's self from the cycle of the universe in choice of "death" over "life" / freedom over slavery?

If zion has fallen 6 times in the past, was agent smith the cause of their failure to defend? I got the impression that they were saying he was.. however, smith is a different kind of construct now, and should have different motivations. I don't think that it was smith who sabotaged the defences... but if not him, who? :)

I'm glad that they took almost all guns out of it. As they progress, and Neo understands his own nature better, he must realize the truth of the matter. He SHOULD be able to turn on or off ANY system hooked to the matrix with nothing but a thought. He is the true "Architect" of reality. When that happens he shouldn't even need a big stick to beat Smith.. just a thought.

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts before the night is through, but that's what's on the top of my head at the moment. All in all, I was not disapointed. If you went to that movie hoping it would be better than the first, you were fooling yourself. Now number 3, I have hopes for, and will probebly end up being disapointed. :) I usually am.

[pinx]

i just came back from watching the matrix, no, excuse me, the SOAP OPERA.

[upuaut]

We need a poll for Matrix2

[pinx]

no we don't. it's plain and simple. THE MATRIX SUCKS. It was way too sappy. I should have saved my money and just watched the soap opera channel.

[upuaut]

um.. sappy does not make something suck, it just makes you dislike it deary. Tell me what sci fi movies DONT suck and we'll be able to judge if you have any opinion of note, of if you just like to bash anything that YOU are not into.

A peice of art is not good or bad because of your impression of it.

As for saving money, perhaps you should. I don't find ANY movie to be worth 8 dollars plus concessions. I paid 6 for a matine, and didn't buy anything from the theatre and I'm only just barely satisfied.

So tell us pinx. what is a good movie in your opinion and what other than sappiness made the matrix a bad movie?

[pinx]

um, deary, i didn't NOT like it just because of the sappiness. that was a huge part of it, but not all.

for starters,

the music selection was horrible. orchestra music with fighting scenes? i don't think so.

the zion scene where they're all dancing was dragged out too long as well as the love scene. I DON'T CARE about Neo and Trinity's relationship. I came to the movie to see them kick ***.

oh and then on the last part where he "feels" the machines and turns around and says "wait, something's different" just did it for me. well of course everything is different, captain obvious.

there's more to come...or more like "TO BE CONCLUDED"

[upuaut]

only point I'll disagree with is this.


the zion scene where they're all dancing was dragged out too long as well as the love scene. I DON'T CARE about Neo and Trinity's relationship. I came to the movie to see them kick ***.

so what you're saying is that because YOU didn't have an interest in something it didn't belong there. Personaly, I'm there to see how the phylosophical story line leads out, and I could care less about the kicking *** part.

I look forward to more of your "insightful" (add sarcasm liberaly), thoughts on the Matrix 2.

[pinx]

Originally posted by david

so what you're saying is that because YOU didn't have an interest in something it didn't belong there. Personaly, I'm there to see how the phylosophical story line leads out, and I could care less about the kicking *** part.


EXACTLY. you got me all figured out. if I didn't want the part in there, it shouldn't be in there.

[upuaut]

I'm sorry pinx, I didn't realize that you were an ignorant person. Thanks for clarifying that for me. From now on I'll just ignore anything you say since it's completely irrelivant to the rest of the world. Have fun in your box.

[upuaut]

Oh, and if ANYONE went to this movie expecting to see Keanu Reeves act well, they are just plain foolish. All the troubled "sappy" played out dramatics were accomplished by none other than Keanu. If you've seen any of his other films you should know by now that a movie with him in it, especially as the main character, is likely to be an exercise in self abuse.

[Raydred]

i was afraid they wouldnt live up to my expectations...
That ussually happens when they have a great movie, and they dont expect it to becomes a huge hit...
then they try to catch that lightning again with a sequel...
Hollywood will try to produce a sequel just for the money, and not for the artisit integrity of a film.

Now that we got that out of the way, im going to analyze the movie and show the flaws i saw.


First and foremost, the "Sex scene" was rather long for the progession of the story, but those things happen in clubs anyway (hehe i think...)

I thought the story was fairly weak. They had some good parts, but for the most part was fairly disconnected in several points and was irrelivant to the story. For example, where matrie 'D's Wife kissed Neo... Yes, there was jealousy, and it showed that Neo loved Trinity, but didnt we know that? she in my opinion, didnt test anything but the fact that they had nothing better to do than show a very attractive woman off..

In the first film i felt it was very Anime-ish, which gave the film a unique feeling, but this reloaded.. (which should be Matrix Reload , sounds so much cooler) had a ... well... a terminator2-Draggin-a-story-on-to-make-more-money feel.

Another thing i hate (in most movies) is the dumifycation of the movie! In the scene where the keymaker was talking to Neo and morph' he said "The building has a weekness" and they said .." It needs electricity".. if they would have just showed thepower plant, people would have figured it out, and made the story better, but no they have to make sure every stupid person can follow it because that way they'll tell their other dumb friends so that the movie makes more money. lol (i have a problem with stupidity..)

I cant think of any other stuff cause im dead tired, but the fact that they Could have made the story better, and built the suspense.. and then didnt.. Im doubting the Wacowski brothers writtings =)

Ive said it.. I feel better..


So Go see it! it was (i have to admit) entertaining and fairly good effects (even though it was hard to match the ground-breaking effects of the first one).. and whats up with the over use of the slow mo' cammera spin?....

- Dred

[Raydred]

Ps.. i thought those Mechs with the big guns were pretty bad *** =)

[upuaut]

Interesting thoughts Raydred

I'm going to break down a couple with my own interpretation. This is in no way a counter to your thoughts, just some speculation I'm making.


I thought the story was fairly weak. They had some good parts, but for the most part was fairly disconnected in several points and was irrelivant to the story. For example, where matrie 'D's Wife kissed Neo... Yes, there was jealousy, and it showed that Neo loved Trinity, but didnt we know that? she in my opinion, didnt test anything but the fact that they had nothing better to do than show a very attractive woman off..

Actually I think that she made a very important point, that maybe you missed. They are trying to develope characters in this episode, not just the human characters, but the programs themselves. Towards this end these scenes, like the kiss show that there is a divide in the matrix itself. The matrix will end, and begin again. Each non-directed entity (ie. Parsephone compared to a 'Mr Smith') has a vested interest in Neo chosing a path that will not lead to the same end, and end of them all.
This is a blatently obvious comparison to heaven and the struggle between Lucifer 'lightbringer', and God. Parsephone is a fallen angel, attempting to direct her own outcome as to avoid "Rapture".


In the first film i felt it was very Anime-ish, which gave the film a unique feeling, but this reloaded.. (which should be Matrix Reload , sounds so much cooler) had a ... well... a terminator2-Draggin-a-story-on-to-make-more-money feel.
Sad that this is true, considering it was writen as a trilogy with all intentions of producing three movies.
However, I could possibly say the same thing about "return of the jedi". :)


Another thing i hate (in most movies) is the dumifycation of the movie! In the scene where the keymaker was talking to Neo and morph' he said "The building has a weekness" and they said .." It needs electricity".. if they would have just showed thepower plant, people would have figured it out, and made the story better, but no they have to make sure every stupid person can follow it because that way they'll tell their other dumb friends so that the movie makes more money. lol (i have a problem with stupidity..)
Ugg.. I know exactly what you mean. At least this movies "dumifycation was semi subtle. Some are just down right scream worthy.

I cant think of any other stuff cause im dead tired, but the fact that they Could have made the story better, and built the suspense.. and then didnt.. Im doubting the Wacowski brothers writtings

They aint Lynch, but then again, sometimes Lynch isn't himself. but yeah.. in general, I question their skillz as well. Popularity never is an indicator of quality. Still.. if The Matrix series is the best of all the crap out there, then I'll watch it and do my best to enjoy myself. I did have fun watching this movie.

[upuaut]

PS, yeah the mech's were really well done.

[SureShot]

I cannot belive how much I disagree with most of you.

I really liked the dance, sex scene in the movie. I thought it was very well done, it was very "erotic" and brought alot to the story. I was glad to see how the real "humans" lived - I guess I am just a sucker for love. I think it was there to show they were human, that they were reality.

As for the music - I think I am the only person on the planet who actually liked the musical score... I dont dont know - I guess that's just me.:)

[TheOrangeOne]

you got the MATRIX REVISITED dvd? its got a cool easter egg with about 50 music tracks on there. pointless, yet so so cool!

[Rockstar]

Matrix: the revolution will be on the picture around Nov (Nov 9 I think)

ah yes the scene where Neo turned around and said "Wait there's something different" and then he collapsed.. then TO BE CONCLUDED.. I really hate that

yeah the music.. the scene where NEO fought with Smiths, do they try to make it like FF8?

ah the dance party.. it reminds me of Bacardy adv.

[Raydred]

I do understand the points they were trying to convey, that ultimatly the programs make their own choices (sorta like us..)
but just the way they did it, (like the kiss) was kinda ... not right.. they should have found a better way to portray that..

Plus i think it would have been cool if we saw neo free that boy,
=)

[vts31]

EVERYONE after u see reloaded 2 times, go back and watch the first matrix. there are a LOT of inside things that relate to the second.

[tenkai]

I get the feeling that people's problems with "holes in the plot" or "useless scenes" in this, the second movie, will be resolved when the third movie is realeased. I think they are simply laying pipe as they call it for the plot of the third movie. I've heard it said that there are not three Matrix movies, but one really drawn out movie that they had to make into seperate parts. Seeing the Animatrix definately will help those with a problem, as I think they explain what happens to the Osiris (which is mentioned in this movie) and where that kid came from.

I think alot of you are being way too critical of this movie instead of taking it for what it is... a Hollywood-made movie. I don't go into the mega-plex expecting deep storylines and incitefull naratives. I have a membership at the local indy theater for when I want to watch a good film. When I went to see Reloaded I got what I paid for, quality entertainment and eye candy.

[pinx]

Originally posted by david
I'm sorry pinx, I didn't realize that you were an ignorant person. Thanks for clarifying that for me. From now on I'll just ignore anything you say since it's completely irrelivant to the rest of the world. Have fun in your box.

obviously you don't understand when somebody's being sarcastic.

[Jubba]

I really liked the film. I think that the sex/rave scene was a bit too long. I would have enjoyed that more if they just alluded to the sex and not actually showed it, but I agree that it moved the plot along.

They definately made up for the dumification when we was speaking to the architect at the end. Everyone around me was going "What? What did he just say? Is he speakin' spanish?" I don't think that the dumification was that bad. The part about the electricity: Not everyone will know how electricity behaves so they kind of needed a small explanation there. I understand why they did it, so I kind of forgive them.

David: In answer to your question about who sabotaged the attack: It was the guy who was on the table at the end. He is the one that was "infected" by agent smith in Neo's dream, only it wasn't a dream, it was Neo's ability to see what is happening in the Matrix, even when he is not in the Matrix.

The music wasn't as good this time around, hopefully they will fix it for the next film. I felt that the music got better as the film progressed tho.

I'll have more later... I overall thought it was a great movie with a few flaws.

[thoriphes]

yeah, i think they could've made do without that whole zion scene. as a matter of fact, i wish they hadn't shown zion at all. all those parts in the movie made it drag a lot. and as for the soundtrack, i do agree that it wasn't as good as the first one. also, they used most of the artists from the first one. i wish/hope in the next one they won't have another song by: deftones, rob zombie, and rage against the machine, not that i have anything against any of these artists, but i want to hear others as well. that's a way i find out about new artists that i wouldn't usually hear on the radio, through compilation albums.

by the way, did any of you see the trailer for revolutions after the credits? i don't know if they showed it at every showing.

[Jubba]

i heard that it was shown at every showing, but I forgot to wait...

[upuaut]

David: In answer to your question about who sabotaged the attack: It was the guy who was on the table at the end. He is the one that was "infected" by agent smith in Neo's dream, only it wasn't a dream, it was Neo's ability to see what is happening in the Matrix, even when he is not in the Matrix.

I think that's a little too obvious, and, in a way, illogical. We shall have to wait and see I suppose, but yes I understood that that's who they were implying did the sabotage.

Just remember that Smith is no longer an agent. He's a new program with different directives.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by vts31
the movie was not a dissapointment.

I think it was a good movie but with some definate problems in the music and editing departments. it left a lot of things left to be answered. I agree that its not the same as before...but if looked at closely not a dissapointment.

Ya i am somewhat dissapointed but not THAT disapointed. the music was obviously messed up, like when the movie started the music was just like the good old matrix, but the rest of the movie was just retarded music, i was like wtf is up with that.

one thing funny tho " i love the language its like whiping my *** with silk "

but still the movie wasnt what i expected to be. but it was still good, just a tad fu***ed up :*(

[Jubba]

Well my theory is this:

In the first movie, when Neo destroyed Smith, he essentially deleted him. The oracle was talking about how exiled programs go haywire and begin to hack other programs. I think that Smith was able to mutate himself and somehow developed to be able to control people on the outside of the Matrix.

I agree that its a little too obvious but if I remember correctly the guy that was the only survivor at the end is the same one that attempted to stab Neo early in the movie and was the one in Neo's dream that got infected by Smith....

[Jubba]

Oh, and Smith is no longer an agent, but he is still a program. Just because he's not an agent doesn't mean that his objective has changed. He is still trying to stop Neo. I think now its more of a personal vendeta

[Matrix]

Originally posted by 350z
Matrix: the revolution will be on the picture around Nov (Nov 9 I think)

ah yes the scene where Neo turned around and said "Wait there's something different" and then he collapsed.. then TO BE CONCLUDED.. I really hate that

yeah the music.. the scene where NEO fought with Smiths, do they try to make it like FF8?

ah the dance party.. it reminds me of Bacardy adv.

it didnt say to be concluded , till the people on theship said there was a surviver, smith in that guys body, then it was to be concluded, GRRRRR im so upset i wanna know what happends. i waited 2 weeks for this movie, went 2 hours early, and the theatre wasnt even packed :crazy: , i could have went half an hour early and EASILY gotten seats.

[senocular]

I went to a daytime showing, got there an hour early and there was a hella long line, not only for my showing but for the next as well :-\

[Jubba]

My friends and I bought our tickets 2 weeks early and my g/f and I got their about an hour early and reserved 2 full rows for all of our friends.

[pinx]

this guy i know waited for 3 hours in line. i don't even wait three hours for lord of the rings.

[DariusMonsef]

Well I read the reviews before I went so I brought my expectations down a bit.

Overall it was an entertaining movie. The special effects were cool, the fight seens were cool.

I do think the love / romance aspects were a little cheesy. After Neo restarts trinities heart, she sits up and they start to kiss. This made me laugh. I almost felt embarrsed.

The only way I can exmplain to people how this movie was is:
After Tiger woods one the masters by 18 strokes, it's no big deal if he wins by 7 strokes.

The Matrix was a mind blowing movie. Reloaded had some great effects and similar ideas to make you think, but it's expected.

my 2 cents

[Rockstar]

yeah if you see from the fighting scene, the visualfx, I would give the movie 9 of 10, but I don't loike the rest of it..

[hojo]

i don't understand why people say it has no plot or why it sucks for this or that. the movie was incredible...ground breaking technology, literally. the w.brothers made their own technology for the movie!

the fights and graphics were incredible. the story and its many ties with computer programming and other **** was really really good and very interesting. i'm going to see it again this weekend.

[Rockstar]

I'm sorry Hojo, I can't explain it, but it sucks for me.

[thoriphes]

i don't think some people think it's bad, i think they're just not surprised anymore. with the shock of the first film, viewers knew what to expect. there were some new effects in this movie, but nothing would cream a viewer's pants more than the first time they saw that bullet-time with Neo and the Agent.

so let me ask all of you this: towards the end when we see Neo dispatching of those Sentinels, does that mean he's the ONE not only in the matrix but in the real? plus, how do you think he's gonna get rid of Smith once and for all. if you saw in the preview for the third one, he's fighting one on one with a Smith, but there are more along the sidelines. plus, since Neo chose the door to save Trinity, why didn't the world explode (i think i missed something from that conversation). finally, can anyone explain the meaning of the multiple Neo's in that same scene? are those multiple matrices or what?

[Jubba]

ok I'll try to answer your questions as I think they are happening...

1) About Neo dispatching the sentinals in real life. 3 possible reasons:

Zion is part of the matrix
Neo's constant connection with the matrix (as portrayed thru his dreams/nightmares) has manifested into the real life and he is able to manipulate the electronics in real life
Neo is simply the ONE and only ONE


When Neo is talking to the architect at the end, he mentions something about possible outcomes. I think that the multiple Neos are just the visual representations of the possible outcomes from the random mathematical equations. I think the converstaion with the Architect reveals something else as well. The concept of control is mentioned a few times. I think the reason that the world did not explode when Neo chose to save Trinity is becasue that the whole thing was a dupe to control Neo. To take away choice. (That all makes sense in my head, I need to clear my thoughts and make my ideas more clear and I'll explain myself).

Not sure about Smith because I didn't see the trailer for the next one....

[pinx]

i think they just did that to mess with our minds (the multiple neos)

[pinx]

hollywood is just trying to control us. it's a conspiracy.

[Rockstar]

Originally posted by pinx
hollywood is just trying to control us. it's a conspiracy.

lol :P

[sintax321]

When u go into a movie like this you can't be comparing it to the first or you will always come aout dissapointed. Nothing they could do could have beat the first one and u jsut have to accept that. Once you move past that this movie becomes amazing in it self.

Also dont' by into the hype of any movie. I have found this to really help improve my movie experance with all films. IF you go in expecting nothing you always come out blowin away.

I think another thing that helped make this movie great for me was i never watched any of the previews for it. Not a singel one. Also never listen to any critics revies of a movie. Go watch it and make your own decison aobut it. A review will always hurt you view of a movie. besides most critics are usless pieces of ****.

I think you have to look at this trilogy as following the original star wars layout. The second movie is always left open with the audiance asking a bunch of questions. I'm thinking the third will be huge.

All and all i give this one a 8 or 9 out of 10. That love scence was pretty chessey and i too did have some problems with the music choices but they seemed bery minor.

PS: raydred those Mechs where bad ***. :A+:

[UncleGuito]

YES!!!

OMG I SAW IT LAST NIGHT AND IT WAS AWESOME!!!!!!!
I went with my bro so i didnt have to sneek in. It was amazing.
i dont give a **** what the critics give it or what they say in their reviews becauase i thought it was sweet.

i thought the ending was good because it kept you thinking of what will happen in the next movie. i thought it was pretty freaky. anyways, its also good for the makers becuase it will attract more people to the next one.


i agree strongly with sintax because if you keep comparing movies to ones that seem godly, all your'e gonna get is bad thoughts and stuff. the first matrix was almost flawless, and if you compare this to it, you're bound to belive that this one wasnt near as good.

i also thought the scene with new vs. 100 smiths was sweet, but it was sorta out of place. i thought it was amazing though


overall i give the movie a 8.75 out of 10, becuase the beginning in Zion and stuff with the sex scene was too long and had a slow start. The action was great and the acting was pretty good as weel as the sound. This movie was the most entertaining movie ive seen in a while, and the aciotn was amazing.

i loved this movie!!!!!


ps. you have to admit that this one did make you think. Is there another matrix? Is the world neo thought was real really real? Afterall, the one was only designed to make the last choice, nothing more....

[RussianBeer]

I just saw it, I was dissapointed...

The movie while had good effects, was streched beyond limitis..
It feels like the director decided ahead of time " It has to be 2 hours long.. so over here your going to kill someone with a plasic spoon, that will take forever, and you you will talk endlessly about how great .. something is.."

It was so drawn out it wasnt funny... and the ending was so lame.... I mean you can end it so it looks like there is a next movie.. but dont accutaly type "To be Continued!" And it seems I sent 2 hours and the movie didnt finish with a point...

the first one was better

[replode]

i just saw it too, and i would give it a B or B+. im not comparing it to the first one, because the first one was alot different.

the first movie was very simple, with some complicated parts in it. the second movie was really different, but stayed in the same mindframe. first off, the neo vs. 100 smiths part was a bit silly. i dont see why they used the hand to hand fighting in every fight scene, because it got old. the car chase scene was really good, and different from most car chase scenes.

the camera spinning around the fire and smoke effect was used perfectly, and morpheus v. the agent on top of the semi was pretty cool. also, the part where trinity was being chased by the agent, then dives out the window, turning around and shooting was very cool, though the bullets paths didn't look as crisp as in the first movie.

some parts of the movie could be easily cut down by a couple of minutes to take away some lag, but the movie was very entertaining.

the 3rd one will probably answer alot of questions that part 2 presented to us:)

[Mik3]

WTF NOOOO
I give it a 99/10

[thoriphes]

haha, you know what i just noticed? if you scramble "Neo" you get "One".

[senocular]

I saw it for a second time tonight, and I must say I appreciated it ALOT more this time around. The long drawn out scenes made more sense and had a place in the story and the conflictions embedded in the ideaology within. More things which were meaningless in the beginning now had meaning and things fall together a little better. Its definitely one to see more than once. In that, I commend it.

[Rockstar]

I dont know I still think it's not good at all..

[Aislin]

I saw it Friday night.

6 out of 10. (mostly in comparison to the previous movie.)

The storytelling in this movie was awful.

Everyone remembers that thing Morph said in Matrix.
"I won't lie to you Neo, everyone who has stood their ground against an agent has died."
Meanwhile, despite numerous run-ins with agents (excluding Neo Vs. Agent situations) every single time there was a run in with an agent, even uber-smith, nobody died. Every fight, while awesome, was a cliched re-hashed pile of junk.


CG was annoying, and far too noticable, despite how impressive it was. Wires made the first movie awesome, not comp graphics.

I loved the movie. I won't deny that. But in all honesty, this movie was a candle against the sun that is The Matrix.

[Aislin]

P.S. -

The soundtrack was awesome.
Neo bringing Trinity back to life was ****. horrible horrible ****. not cliched by stories in general, but by the first movie itself. How you could possibly enjoy seeing a disgusting waste of film, I don't know.

It's sad to see how dependent they are on the main characters. Even if just Niobe and Ghost died instead of Morpheus (who SHOULD HAVE DIED YOU STUPID WACHOWSKI BROTHERS) it would have been acceptable. Instead they turned it into another cliched fight where the hero comes back out of nowhere with some mystery energy from beyond.

The storytelling made me sick. The choice theory chats with the oracle were stupid. back and forth and back and forth. uber-smith after smith after smith should have been able to put a dent into Neo. Just three managed to almost assimilate him. Why can't a few hundred even hit him? Instead they just get knocked down the same way by the same move, over, and over, and later in the movie, it happens again.

If at least 6 main characters don't die next movie, I'll be disgusted.

By the by, the sex scene was rediculous. all of zion was. They're not savages. they're very technologically advanced humans, who invented AI and robots and etc. And they obviously use it, (cough- 'You're clear for landing, nebuchadnezzer, just let me move a few data tiles around on my invisible screen in my super-white room' -cough) so why are they all acting like savages and dancing in their dirt hole?

And the name dropping was insane. Persephone, that wierd boyfriend of hers, the twins, Seraph, keymaker, just SO many names and well over half of them went nowhere. they just were there as a scapegoat to get to the next scene.

---------------------

Despite all these obvious and stupid faults, I loved the movie, and I loved the action, and I can't wait for Revolutions. But from a critics point of view, not a giddy fanboys, this movie was terrible.

[sintax321]

I don't tink u realized the white room was a construct program. Of course it looked nice and supper advnced it was just a program.

Plus try to watch it an not compare it to the first. The first one is a master piece of cinima. Nothing they could have done could top it so don't ever expect that to happen and the movie becomes way more enjoyable to watch.

[Kajinku]

I saw The Matrix Reloaded on Friday. Here is my review:

1) The film is very "loaded". Not in story (compared to the first one I mean), but in images and happenings: The Oracle's body guard, the Keymaker, the Architect, etc. We get overwhelmed with details we did not get in the first one. Why? Quite simple... The Wachowskis wrote a script that was 3 movies long from the very beginning. When they got a green light to start on the first film, the studio didn't know it was going to be such a success. The answer they got from the studio was "Erm, 3? Let's try with one first, shall we?". They left out all the details that could lead to a second movie, in case The Matrix was going to flop. It didn't. The Matrix Reloaded shows us what Neo is capable of, how Zion is, who (or what) The Oracle actually is, etc. It's an episode, an incomplete story, which is of course always different in 'feeling' than a complete one... like the first film. Face it, only nerds and die-hard fans where asking questions like "Who's the Oracle lady?". The Matrix Reloaded finally shows us what Morpheus was talking about in the first film. We finally see their world (which is a bit savage... and odd, I have to admit). And with another episode coming up to conclude the whole thing, it's obvious that this one felt a bit "empty". It's fun and it makes you go "whoa!", even if you have to concentrate a while when Neo meets the Architect.

2) Reeves, Fishburne and Moss are acting well. I didn't notice "major differences" with the first film. They still are the Neo, Morpheus and Trinity we knew. OK, they are in love and all, but still.

3) The special effects and fight scenes are just incredible. Amazing stuff, the best ever. I really loved the Keymaker fight scene. The scene with the 100 agent Smiths could have been shorter for me though. It only gets good when Neo grabs his stick... erm... you know. ;)
Neo can fly, yes, and? Some people apparently have problems with this, but he did it in the first film as well. It's a fun ride... like video games stuff, only *much* better.

4) The music was indeed different in style than in the first film. A bit weird sometimes, but I can't say it sucked. It's not as good as in the first film, not as mysterious, but it's still Matrix-ish to me, even if there's more techno-beat in it.

5) The part that sucked big time is the dance / sex scene. Too long, too... useless. Also, Neo bringing Trinity back to life was kind of cheap. I was like "hm, ok" when he took the bullet out of her, but the heart thing was too much. And what is Morpheus injecting?

6) Even if the third one isn't complete yet, I think Reloaded is the fun "let's go for a spin" one. It's the T-Rex scene in Jurassic Park, it's the Joda fighting scene in Episode 2, it's the Wolverine vs DeathStrike in Xmen2, whatever... it's what people want to see. Now we know what Neo can do, he's no newbie anymore, and that's what people miss compared to the first movie.
"Here we go!"

My Conclusion:
It's a fun, incredible adventure with some weird moments. It feels like an anime... like Akira... you know, a bit too much sometimes. Just like the first one, this is a film for the fans. I hate people that say "woah, yeah, the Matrix is cool" just because it's in the news.
Disapointed? No. Is it better than the first one? No. Was it worth the waiting? Hell yeah! Should I wait for Revolutions? You must... the journey finally gets *real* by the end of Reloaded.

The Matrix: 5/5
The Matrix Reloaded: 4/5

[senocular]

I dont know why people keep saying there's no story. There's more story in this then 5 other generic films that frequent the theaters put together. Everyone just seems to be either unable to comprehend it or are too enamored by the effects to notice - that or they're, by default, categorizing the movie as a cliched "all effects no story" film as a result of the... well, effects and the hype to go along with the movie's release.

Im thinking theres a reason for the corney "I love you now live dammit" scenes too. Their entire existance is built upon a set definition of what is "there" and what is to be expected. You then have this minority of opposition or unacceptance. Likewise, you have this non-stop story action thing (nothing sappy atleast) until these 2 pivotal points in each of the 2 movies where that minority of sap comes in. Then they do "exactly what they need to do" to fullfill that sap and to satisfy that small percentage that "doesnt accept the program."

... If you think about it, any complaint can be countered or explained through the film by similar a comparison of actuallity (whatever kind of actuality that might be) and theory - human or machine.

[Kajinku]

Everyone just seems to be either unable to comprehend it or are too enamored by the effects to notice.
100% right. I completely agree.

[senocular]

I missed this:
When trinity is hacking the terminal at the power plant (and she uses an actual vulnerability) ...

if you convert the password of Z1ON0101 to decimal, you get Zion5..which could refer to the 5th version of Zion or the prior version, Zion 5.0, as implied by the Architect.
Neo 5.0 took the other door and reset the Matrix and created Zion 6.0 populated by people Neo 5.0's choosing (which might include Trinity). So, the initial inhabitants of Zion 6.0, taught by Neo 5.0, frees the minds of the people who question the reality of Matrix 6.0 thereby saving the programs (people/minds) from deletion by the agents.
The actions of Neo 5.0 can be attributed to Neo 5.0's want to save Zion 5.0's inhabitants from deletion. The saving of Zion 5.0 is deemed as a noble cause by the inhabitants of Zion for the reason of the survival of self.
Since Zion 6.0 faced imminent destruction and the password of Zion5 allows Neo 6.0 to meet the architect and possibly "save" Zion 6.0 and since the prior versions of the Matrix probably have the same event timelines (Oracle->Keymaster->Architect), a programming loop, if you will, it would seem to me that the actions of Zion 6.0 rebels would also be similar to prior versions of Zion rebels (this goes along with the thought that Zion is a Matrix and the inhabitants, Morpheus, Trinity, et al, are programs), that the password is a hint that it's all a loop and that the Zion rebels are in fact programs. I expect that Revolutions is where Neo becomes enlightened of the fact that the "real world" is not real at all.

[replode]

i thought the story was really good, some parts were slow, but the story was very intertaining. i do think they should have stayed away from every computer graphic they could. some parts i can see why they needed computer graphics, but if you can do it like the 1st film, then do it that way.:)

one of my favorite special effects was during the highway chase, after the 2 semis collided, and there was a big explosion, the camera smoothly and in slow motion circled the big fireball and clouds of smoke. clearly amazing.:)

the 3rd one will probably have tons of surprises, and little details that will answer the first 2 films. cant wait.:)

i give matrix reloaded an 8.5/10.

[Kajinku]

Originally posted by senocular
I missed this:
When trinity is hacking the terminal at the power plant (and she uses an actual vulnerability) ...

if you convert the password of Z1ON0101 to decimal, you get Zion5..which could refer to the 5th version of Zion or the prior version, Zion 5.0, as implied by the Architect.
Neo 5.0 took the other door and reset the Matrix and created Zion 6.0 populated by people Neo 5.0's choosing (which might include Trinity). So, the initial inhabitants of Zion 6.0, taught by Neo 5.0, frees the minds of the people who question the reality of Matrix 6.0 thereby saving the programs (people/minds) from deletion by the agents.
The actions of Neo 5.0 can be attributed to Neo 5.0's want to save Zion 5.0's inhabitants from deletion. The saving of Zion 5.0 is deemed as a noble cause by the inhabitants of Zion for the reason of the survival of self.
Since Zion 6.0 faced imminent destruction and the password of Zion5 allows Neo 6.0 to meet the architect and possibly "save" Zion 6.0 and since the prior versions of the Matrix probably have the same event timelines (Oracle->Keymaster->Architect), a programming loop, if you will, it would seem to me that the actions of Zion 6.0 rebels would also be similar to prior versions of Zion rebels (this goes along with the thought that Zion is a Matrix and the inhabitants, Morpheus, Trinity, et al, are programs), that the password is a hint that it's all a loop and that the Zion rebels are in fact programs. I expect that Revolutions is where Neo becomes enlightened of the fact that the "real world" is not real at all.
Heh! And they say Reloaded has no story. Morrons. ;)
No, really, it has a story, it's just that not many people get it. Good point by the way, I enjoyed reading your "missing part".

[liam]

for the gamers, i highly recommend the "enter the matrix" video game for all the next-gen consoles.

it's absolutely amazing. slo-mo, bullet trails, running off walls, diving through glass, and amazing hand-to-hand combat that was choreographed by the same guy who did the movie stuff.

each character (niobe and ghost) have 3500 different moves each. these include linking moves, i.e. jumping from running on the wall and kicking a guy in the face.

after i played it for about an hour, i finally realized that my jaw was on the floor.

it gives TONS of backstory too. in reloaded, there are some events that happen which you don't get to see, you just hear about. in the game, you get to see these events happen, and in some cases you have to even do them. i.e., when niobe appears out of nowhere to save morpheus from falling off the truck, you have to drive there in time in one of the game's segments.

very very cool :) a must-buy for sure.

[Aislin]

Kajinku -

That was not story. That was a hint.
If someone could explain to me where there WAS story, beyond what we already knew, then I'd love to hear it.
The Seraph bit to make sure neo was neo, before he took him to oracle, I didn't see the point. The Oracle, pretty much the same talk as before. Choice and whatnot.
Oh, and someone's going to say the architect had a lot. No. Agent Smith already shed light on the previous matrixes. Architect just tagged on some more details.

There was not anything new in this movie. It was just getting everything ready for Revolutions.

I know they had to, but it's still a shame.
---

I loved that movie so much it was so awesome I have to go see it again that was so cool.

[Aislin]

Mistakes in the Matrix Reloaded:
(These are for fun only)

In the freeway chase scene when one of the agents jumps onto the hood of the first car then jumps off, the car flips, then a second later as the car is still flipping you can see the gas tank has been removed

There is never any gasoline in any car or motorcycle that is transported on a truck. How did Trinity steal it?

When Neo is talking to the Oracle there is a stray hair about to fall away from the Oracle's head. It disappears and reappears a couple of times.

In the scene where Morpheus is sitting in the chair near the end of the movie giving his "War and fate" speech you can see the microphone and camera in his sunglasses. This is repeatedly seen during the whole scene.

When Neo first steps off the Nebuchadnezzar and is walking away from the camera, he has no data hookup port on the back of his head whatsoever. It is not further up on his head or partially covered by his hair, it is missing entirely.
(Hint about the real world not real theory? Or mistake? Hmm...)

When Agent Smith stands in the way of Neo, Morpheus and the keymaker, Smith's glasses reflect an empty corridor when 3 people are right in front of him.

In the scene where Neo is sitting with the oracle and talking, there is one quick shot of the fence area where Smith comes in. In spraypaint on the metal fence it has "ONE" written across it diagonally up to the right. When the oracle leaves and Agent Smith comes through the fence entrance the spraypainted "ONE" has disappeared.

[senocular]

its amazing how fast people come up with these :beam:

I remember there being a LOT for independance day.

... it seems that there wasnt as much attention payed to reflections in this movie vs matrix 1. That was a big issue then, and really a driving point of the film - the reflections. A lot was related off of that and there were special precautions taken to prevent error in relfections of the glasses etc. Didnt seem to be the case so much here :)

I was also wondering about the oracle's role in this movie, how much was removed, replaced or hacked as Gloria Foster (the actress playing the role) died of diabetes before the completion of the film. Some of her lines were directly from the first movie and I was thinking that either a) they hacked them in because of her untimely death to fullfill the requirements of the scenes or b) they were purposeful repetitions that would further enforce the fact that she is, in fact, herself a program. She didnt get to shoot any of her part for Revolutions so I dont know whats going to happen there.

[sintax321]

Originally posted by senocular
I expect that Revolutions is where Neo becomes enlightened of the fact that the "real world" is not real at all.

This is very true. Look at the final sort of scenes wehre Neo says he feels differnt. He can feel the sentinals. He also seems to have powers i nthe real world that he has in the matrix. I think this is all the proof we need to jsutify that the real workd is in fact jsut another form of control.

Ya it is sad to hear that the orical actress died and it would explain the repeted dioluge between her and Neo.

I also noticed at the start of the movie when Neo stepped off the ship that he had no Data Jack in the back of his head. I hope it was intentional becuase if not that is a pretty poor thing to over look.

It also seems that the little details that where carfuly looked afeter in the the first one like the reflections where ingnored in this one. Maybe because this one goes into such a larger scale movie is the reason but that shouldnt' be an excuse to over look such a thing.

[Aislin]

Agent Smith reveals to Morpheus that there was another matrix that preceded the one currently in place. In the first matrix human life was perfect but it was rejected by man (according to Agent Smith) so the second matrix world included suffering. This is a lot like the Bible's record of Adam and Eve (the first man and woman created) who defied God and were then cast out of the perfect Garden of Eden and into a world of sin and pain.

----

Architect just expanded. Etc.

----

In The Matrix Neo couldn't do anything unless he 'knew it', he 'knew he was faster' etc.

Because he was so violently brought into the 'real' world and shown what's what by his 'god' (morpheus), he would not doubt it, as he doubted the Matrix. So he would never realize his powers in the 'real' world until he had a reason to doubt it, as he did the Matrix. The Architect was the key to doubting the 'real' world, and shortly after he used 'powers' in the real world.

But none of these could take effect (in the matrix) unless he was 'unplugged.' So... either there is no actual plugging in in the real matrix, and being unplugged in the inner matrix provides your brainn with some new level of consciousness (then all unplugged people would have the potential to do what Neo did to the sentinals) OR there's some crazy superhero **** going on.

Anyways, my rambling is done.

---

Edit:

To add on to Sen's thing about the oracle, perhaps the Seraph fight was thrown in only to extend the length of the scenes for the 'Oracle Visit.'

Perhaps originally, Seraph was just gonna lead him through a door. But who knows.

[Rockstar]

I still dont like it :(

[senocular]

fair enough ;) we wont hold it against you.
You're more than welcome to that AWFUL opinion.

:beam: j/k w/ the "awful" ;)

[Jubba]

Originally posted by sintax321
I also noticed at the start of the movie when Neo stepped off the ship that he had no Data Jack in the back of his head. I hope it was intentional becuase if not that is a pretty poor thing to over look.

I know what you're talking about but if you look closely it is there. Its under his hair and its hardly noticeable but I definately saw it when he was walking off the ship into Zion...

[sintax321]

I must go see it again. I was so excited to see the movie and things jsut seemd to fly by really fast once it got going(except for the sex scene). I think i missed alot so i should go see it one more time. Plus i loved it so i really want to see it again.

[Jubba]

yeah, I think I am going to go one more time to catch any things I missed. Probably next week or so...

[UncleGuito]

yeah i want to see it a second time also. i was pretty surprised at the end, that the fact that the one was only to control the people, not to save them. and then ontop of that, neo discovers his powers are usable in what he thinks is the real world too, and what infact he thought was the real world, was actually fake.

i liked the story, and thought it was far easier to understand for a stupid 14 year old like me than the first one. after i saw the first one 2 or 3 times, i finally got it.

i loved the movie





:A+:

[senocular]

you thought this one was easier to understand? I got the first one pretty good. I guess, for me, the difference is that I know I *think* I understand it but Im not sure because I dont know whats going to happen next and how its all going to turn out. Theres too much speculation for me to consider this one 'understood' :)

[Iammontoya]

Um... yeah...what everyone said.

some stuff was cool. Like the first much better. We'll see what happens with the last.

[Kajinku]

Originally posted by Aislin
Kajinku -

That was not story. That was a hint.
If someone could explain to me where there WAS story, beyond what we already knew, then I'd love to hear it.

(...)

There was not anything new in this movie. It was just getting everything ready for Revolutions.

I know they had to, but it's still a shame.

Like I said, I really see this one like an episode... but it has some story. Even if the Oracle was kind of repeating herself, we know what she is now. And she told Neo to find the Keymaker. She shows the path, that's all, like in the first film. We also know that there are different versions of the Matrix and Zion. Is everything real or not? It was indeed getting ready for Revolutions. This one is a fun ride, but I think it fits well. Maybe because I kind of expected it to be less in quality than the first one. It's a complex story to continue, especially after the first film.

Now I don't know what to expect for Revolutions. No idea at all.

[RussianBeer]

Phil, I didnt like the movie much either... but the way you described it I wonder why you gave it 3 stars... out of 5 that means that its 66% a passing grade!

Just curious :P

[senocular]

I see the dancing and the sex scene as the "celebration of body" where you have these people with the apparent freedom from the machines in a very non-technical setting with limited clothing and in very close contact with each other celebrating that freedom, their disilusioned foreseen victory against the machines (though they have already lost) and, really, their humanity. You are really brought back out of that celebration at the end when neo stops because of his halucinations/dreams and you get this pan out where you see the more unnerving plugs that line his spine which reminds you of the influence that the machines have had/do have. Its all representative of how sucessful THAT control is of those 'uncontrollable' people - all except neo of course who pulls out... umm literally.

Theres also a lot of theory behind the mind not being able to live without the body. Come to think of it, Morpheous mentions something in the first movie along the lines of "The body cannot live without the mind." There are beliefs that the same is true for the reverse. The dance is a celebration of the body - something for the 'free' of mind. Theres that, again, confliction of free mind and body or controlled mind (and controlled body). A controlled mind is a controlled body. The uncontrolled celebrate their free body, for without it, they would have no mind.

...Im starting to confuse myself... ;)

[UncleGuito]

im gonna kill you!!!
why can you hate a movie as good as this?!!

its awesome. im sitting here in school and everyone agrees with me and all the people who love it. it was a great movie. good story, awesome action, good music, non essential sex scene, what more can a good movie have?!

case closed :thumb:

[Jubba]

Sen: Agreed. The entire movie is metaphorical and I think once you begin to understand the metaphors and the underlying ideas of the movie, it begins to make more sense. :)

[TOOL]

Originally posted by Phil Jayhan
And the song they closed the movie with couldn;t have been more shrieking and annoying to the ears and the senses. I literally put my hand over my ears to drown it out; It was horrible noise which they called music; Crap

:!: It was Rage Against The Machine!! :!: They rocked!!

a cool song in my opinion :P

[Kajinku]

Yeah Phil... how did you survive the first movie? ;)

[sintax321]

Phil i have one question. Did you even like the first one?

[pinx]

Originally posted by Phil Jayhan
I saw it tonight and was disappointed; The sex scene was non essential and gratuitous, as well as the dance scene with all the *******, the camera moved phrom nipple to nipple with no reason apparent other than to show *******; And why were they all black? A question I would like to see answered...Aphirmative action perhaps during armegeddon? who knows, who cares? And the song they closed the movie with couldn;t have been more shrieking and annoying to the ears and the senses. I literally put my hand over my ears to drown it out; It was horrible noise which they called music; Crap; Although I would give the movie 3 stars out of 5, I am totally disappointed as was the person I saw this phlick with; After all is said and done, I wish I could get a rephund of my 9 bucks and just wait phor it to come out on DVD;

my opinion-
pj :P

wow i can't believe i actually agree with you for once. except for the fact that you're dissing rage. i wish they were still around.

[RussianBeer]

Acctualy I think the first movie was better, this movie has a big mix of people who like it, people who pretend they like it, and people who hated it...

I think it wasnt to great of a movie..I mean cmon! Even the fight scence with neo, he always repeted the same move! And he took forever to kill someone.. even in the fight in the mantion when they tried to rescue the key maker, room FULL of weapons, but no he didnt touch them until he got bored! And then finaly, took out a knife and stabed someone (with reluctancy) And when he fought the 50 cloning agents.. did u notice not one agent got BRUISED, even when he was hitting him with the pipe, no broken nose , no scratches...?

Except Morpheus... he was **** cool.. he fought to kill.. but neo fought to show off..

[pinx]

Originally posted by senocular
I see the dancing and the sex scene as the "celebration of body" where you have these people with the apparent freedom from the machines in a very non-technical setting with limited clothing and in very close contact with each other celebrating that freedom, their disilusioned foreseen victory against the machines (though they have already lost) and, really, their humanity. You are really brought back out of that celebration at the end when neo stops because of his halucinations/dreams and you get this pan out where you see the more unnerving plugs that line his spine which reminds you of the influence that the machines have had/do have. Its all representative of how sucessful THAT control is of those 'uncontrollable' people - all except neo of course who pulls out... umm literally.

Theres also a lot of theory behind the mind not being able to live without the body. Come to think of it, Morpheous mentions something in the first movie along the lines of "The body cannot live without the mind." There are beliefs that the same is true for the reverse. The dance is a celebration of the body - something for the 'free' of mind. Theres that, again, confliction of free mind and body or controlled mind (and controlled body). A controlled mind is a controlled body. The uncontrolled celebrate their free body, for without it, they would have no mind.

...Im starting to confuse myself... ;)

i think you are entirely overanalyzing the whole thing. it's like english class, when you have to discuss a story and people just say stuff just to say something.

[pinx]

also, it's not coincidence that the city was called ZION and the ship NEBUCHANEZZAR.

[pinx]

Read here about King Nebuchanezzar (http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/The_Story_of_the_Greatest_Nations_and_the_Worlds_F amous_Events_Vol_1/kingbaby_be.html)

very interesting to say the least.

[RussianBeer]

link dont work

[pinx]

hold on, it's weird.

copy and paste this:

http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/The_Story_of_the_Greatest_Nations_and_the_Worlds_F amous_Events_Vol_1/kingbaby_be.html

[pinx]

how weird. well search "king nebuchanezzar" and you shall find it.

[RussianBeer]

Still dosent work.. sorry
And you can just edit ur last post, no need to reply again.. so people wont get cluttered with responces on their mail boxes

[Kel - 420]

Well I finally went to see it Friday.

I thought it was good. Some of the fight scenes looked like they use CGI and for the life of me I can’t see why. All in all I thought it was a good film. :)

Did you notice how they still do the green tint for scenes in the fake world and a blue tint for scenes in the real world.

[Aislin]

That was the same in the first movie. The green thing.

And they were in CGI. That's why it looked that way.

[senocular]

They're in the matrix... its not real... so its ok if it doesnt look real :crazy:

[Kel - 420]

true :)

[Aislin]

I can't remember who said the fights were too long, but they're absolutely right.

Neo can fight smith with one hand behind his back, without looking, and after being shot several times in the chest. what the shlt business does he have wasting time?

And the morpheus fight was worse. So cliched. And in violation of something even he himself said.

ANNOYING. Morpheus should be DEAD.

[Aislin]

Morpheus


In Greek mythology, Morpheus is the God of dreams. In the movie, he is the leader of the rebel forces who fight to awaken humans from a dreamlike reality called The Matrix.


Morpheus's hovercraft is called the Nebuchadnezzar. (Nebo was the Babylonian God of Wisdom.) In the Bible, Nebuchadnezzar was a Babylonian king who searched for the meaning of his dreams while Morpheus seeks out an Oracle to interpret reality--which is really a dream.


In the movie, Morpheus has the codes to Zion's mainframe computer. (Zion is an underground city in the real world where the humans live because the rest of the earth has been destroyed or taken over by machines.) In the Bible's book of Revelation, Zion is the kingdom of God where the righteous will be saved after the destruction of the earth.


Interesting enough, the word "morphing" refers to the "smooth transformation of one image into another by computer as in a motion picture."


Another word that starts with "morph" is morphine. It is a drug that is "used chiefly in medicine as a pain reliever and as a sedative" (to induce sleep.)

Trinity



Trinity stands for the number three. Pythoagoras referred to 3 as the perfect number. The number three is found on many pillars throughout the subway scene.


The word "trinity" is often used to represent the union of three people or things, such as:

body, mind and spirit

birth, life and death

mother, father, and child

past, present and future



In Christian theology, "trinity" refers to the personality of one God--the union of the Father, the Son (Christ), and the Holy Spirit.


In the movie there is Morpheus--"the Father," Neo--"the Son," and Trinity--"the Holy Spirit." As Carrie-Ann Moss explained in Xpose Magazine, "Even her name is intriguing--Trinity. I always thought it represented the combination of me and Laurence and Keanu."


Tank (to Morpheus): "You're more than a leader to us. You're a father."


Neo [to Triniy]: "That was you on my computer." (Even though Neo was sound asleep he immediately woke up as Trinity began to type a message for him on his computer.)


Trinity [to the dead body of Neo, who has died in the Matrix]: "You hear me? I love you... Now get up." Later on, while Neo is in the Matrix he hears Trinity (who is in the real world next to his physical body) scream his name as well.


In the beginning of the movie, Trinity is in hotel room number 303 and the song titled "Main Title/Trinity Infinity" is playing in the background. (At the end of the movie, Neo ends up in that same room. Also, Neo travels through apartment 30 while trying to outrun the agents.) The number zero "0" or a circle represents infinity and in Islam, "0" means "limitless light and the Divine Essence." Therefore, the number 303 could logically stand for "Trinity Infinity." Trinity can also, according to the book, "The Secret Language of Dreams," "signify the female principle, entry into the mysteries, or a sense of completion."


Since Neo means "One", Trinity means "Three", one could say that the character Morpheus must stand for "two." In the book mentioned above, it says that the number two "is the number of duality, divine symmetry, and balance. It represents the coming together of the male and female..." This is very accurate statement of Morpheus, since it is he who brings Neo (the man) and Trinity (the woman) together. He is also the character that bridges the gap between two other opposites--the real world and the matrix.

Neo/Thomas



An anagram of Neo is One.


According to the Wachowski brothers, "Neo is Thomas Anderson's potential self."


The name Thomas is Hebrew and means "twin." As Agent Smith tells Neo, "You have been living two lives." As Thomas, he unknowingly lives inside the matrix and works for a software company while as Neo he is a computer hacker who eventually wakes up in the real world.


Neo is referred to as "the One". In "The Secret Language of Dreams," it states that the number 1 represents "the prime mover from which all manifest creation flows, the single principle from which diversity is born. In dreams it may represent the source of all life, the ground of being..."


In Christian theology, Jesus Christ is the Messiah (Son of God, Son of Man, "Light of The World") who saves mankind from its sins. In the Bible, Jesus dies on the cross, but later is resurrected and ascends up to heaven. Christ translates from Hebrew into "Anointed One."



The movie, Neo dies [is shot to death] but later comes back to life. At the end of the movie, a ressurected Neo flies up into the sky.


Neo's full name in the matrix is Thomas A. Anderson. The last name means "Son of Man" or "Man's Son. (both refer also to the Biblical Messiah.)


One of Jesus's Disciples, Thomas, (nicknamed "Doubting Thomas") did not believe the Jesus had died and had been resurrected until he saw the holes His hands. In "The Matrix," Thomas/Neo was shot by the agent, yet he didn't realize it until he looked down, touched the bullet hole in his chest and saw the blood. Afterwards, he was shot several more times and died, only to come back to life again--this time as "The One."


After being resurrected, Neo ("The One") jumps into the body of Agent Smith and explodes through it as a being of brillant white light. In the Bible, Jesus says, "I am the light of the world." (John 8:12)


In the Subway scene, we see a faded billboard advertisement for Sol beer. The word "sol" refers to the Roman God of the sun. (This is why we refer to the sun's energy as being "solar." In the movie, the sun has been blocked out so it is the humans who are the machine's form of solar power.) Also note that words "sun" and "son" sound the same, yet another reference to the Jesus's "the light of the world" personification.


There is a sun-shaped clock in the hallway of the Oracles's apartment.


The Nebuchadnezzar's plate which states when it was built also has the words "Mark III No. 11" inscribed on it. Mark 3:11 of The King James Bible reads: "And unclean spirits when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried saying, Thou art the Son of God."


Agent Smith reveals to Morpheus that there was another matrix that preceded the one currently in place. In the first matrix human life was perfect but it was rejected by man (according to Agent Smith) so the second matrix world included suffering. This is a lot like the Bible's record of Adam and Eve (the first man and woman created) who defied God and were then cast out of the perfect Garden of Eden and into a world of sin and pain.





In Buddhist theology, a man named Siddhartha attained enlightenment (freedom from suffering) and became known as the Buddha, which means "the Enlightened One."


In Hinduism, the word maya refers to the belief or philosophy that "the visible world is an illusion that clouds the reality of absolute oneness." This belief is a crucial step in attaining enlightenment.


In Hinduism and Buddhism, samara (reincarnation) refers to the continuous circle of life, death, and rebirth. The word rebirth can also simply refer to a "renewed existence, activity or growth." In the dictionary, "Neo" is listed a combining form meaning "new," "recent," "revived," and "modified." Of course, in the movie, Neo dies and comes back (is reborn) with the ability to change the Matrix.


Words that begin with the "neo" suffix include neonatal (which refers to newborns) and neophyte (which is another word for beginner, novice, or a new convert).


The Oracle: "You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something [...] your next life maybe, who knows? That's the way these things go."


The song "Dragula" by Rob Zombie is featured in the movie during Neo and Trinity's club scene). The first line of the song is: "Dead, I am the one."


There are many references to Neo being the "One" in "The Matrix" They include:
As Morpheus explains, "When the matrix was first built, there was a man who was born inside who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake the matrix as he saw fit.... After he died, the oracle prophesized his return and that his coming would hail the destruction of the matrix and the war, bring freedom to our people....I did what I did because I believe that search is over "


Choi [To Neo]: "Hallelujah. You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ."


Cypher: "Did he tell you why he did it, why you're here? Jesus. What a mind job. So you're here to save the world."


Cypher: "I mean if Neo's the One, then there'd have to be some kind of a miracle to stop me. Right? I mean, how can he be the one if he's dead?" (Of course, there turns out to be a miracle--Tank kills Cypher before he can unplug Neo and him. The irony of Cypher's second statement is that it is not until Neo "dies" from the agent's bullets and comes back to life afterwards that it is revealed that Neo is the "One.")


Tank [after seeing Neo save Morpheus's life as well as Trinity's]: "I knew it. He's the One."


Morpheus [when Neo comes back to life after being shot to death]: "He is the One."


Trinity [to a dead Neo]: "The Oracle told me that I would fall in love, and that man, the man who I loved would be the One. So you see, you can't be dead. You can't be because I love you."







In the movie, Neo's apartment number is 101 which is the universal language code for computers and also represents the fact that Neo is the One (1) for infinity (0)


============================================

[b]100's of times more information regarding The Matrix's characters, plot line, symbolism, etc, all available at from a brilliant guy who call's himself Dew, at his Matrix Fanpage.

http://www.geocities.com/larkspur10/neo/home.html

[senocular]

very cool ;)

[Jubba]

that is very cool indeed.

[NaliWarCow]

Absolutely amazing.

[sintax321]

good god that is a lot.

[sintax321]

I'm jsut a little suprised that some one who loved the first one so much didn't liek this one. Oh well maybe the next one will bring you back into the fold.

[Kajinku]

Originally posted by RussianBeer
And when he fought the 50 cloning agents.. did u notice not one agent got BRUISED, even when he was hitting him with the pipe, no broken nose , no scratches...?

Except Morpheus... he was **** cool.. he fought to kill.. but neo fought to show off..

Erm... the agents are still programs you know, even if Smith is "unplugged".

I kind of agree that Neo was fighting to show off. But that's what the die hard fans were asking for. Neo *had* to kick ***. It had to be as spectacular as possible. The Wachowskis realised that, but then the other half of the audience thought it was too long...

[replode]

i am going back in the next week, partly because i didn't know about the preview at the end.:angry:

but if you find the story confusing, or didn't get the entire view of a scene, then i would suggest reading the script. i am currently reading through part 1, and im finding out a lot more than the movie is willing to show.

just a suggestion, i know everyone here doesn't have 5 hours to read a script.

[Jubba]

where did you get the script from? link?

[RussianBeer]

I dissagree.. even though the Agents are programs they still supposidly follow the rules of the matrix, u get hurt and stuff.. thats why they can still get shot.. still he fought too long and repeated the same moves alot.. in a room of axes and swords.. he took to knifes and STILL continued to punch people without much effect.... I did like morpheus acctualy, he fought with a handicap, but the character was portrayed VERY well, you could really belevie that this guy was on a crusade, and he knew he must win and will win.. That actor did a great job.

[senocular]

but rules can be bent... and even broken.

[replode]

i got part 1 from www.simplyscripts.com and i havent found an accurate part 2 yet:-\

[prstudio]

green tint:
there's a trick to that...at least in the first one...if you got up on the screen and looked closely, you could see the green text
scrolling through the movie...i saw it myself...

I loved the second one. I loved it from a technical side, I loved that they spoke intelligently and thorough. A lot of people wanted action, but not the story. I wanted both. And as they keep saying, they've split the final movie into "2" being Reloaded and Revolution...

Great movie. Wow.

And this movie, I'm not meaning to spark a debate, but at least to me is very deep and cannot be overanalyzed. A friend and I were discussing the philosophy behind it, and then the possible outcomes in part 3...amazing the scope, depth we covered. People at the university actually hold discussions on the philosophy behind the matrix...as apart of their club meetings...

its very deep, you just have to let your intellect and imagination roll with it.

[Kajinku]

Totally agree. In my opinion, the story of The Matrix (whatever which movie) is the deepest ever. I mean, it's "round"... kind of complete, you know...

[RussianBeer]

I agree it is very round.. they screwd up a bunch of times on some scenes, and sometimes as completle as Matrix is, forgot they where telling a story to keep the viewr intrested.. but its true though, it is very complete...

[lava]

Um, you know this about the movie right... there's a lot of holes that are explained in the game - the Wachowskis designed it like that. To understand the movie better, you need to play the game.

[lava]

Oh yeah... and in the fight scene in the playground... it looked so fake... I don't know what it is, but I'm always noticing when people are CGI'd in movies.. Neo was totally CGI'd, and they did a much better job with Agent Smith...

[Kajinku]

True, you can see it very well when he's close to the camera.

[TheOrangeOne]

just found this link. for those who havn't seen the movie, here is a shortened version of the script: (its funny, so go check it out anyway.) http://ter.air0day.com/index.php?script=matrixreloaded

*edit* thanks to jonster for the link

[jonster]

It's suprisingly accurate

[Jubba]

KEANU REEVES
Just answer me one question. We're
not going to find out that the real
world is in another matrix, are we?

THE EXPLAINER
Christ I hope not.





KEANU REEVES
I hate you.

THE EXPLAINER
Perhaps you should drink more
Powerade.





KEANU REEVES
Why am I here?

THE EXPLAINER
Many years ago, shortly before the
success of Speed, you sold your soul
to the devil in exchange for a
promise of notoriety that your
piss-poor acting skills do not
deserve. This series is the
actualization of this promise.



ahahahahahaha


oh, yeah... check out this link too: http://maddox.xmission.com/matrix2.html

Maddox tells us what he thinks of it..

[TheOrangeOne]

aw man! that is funny: love the toilet-timemachine-selotape picture. The guy is so anal ,its brilliant!

MADOX:This page is about me and why everything I like is great. If you disagree with anything you find on this page, you are wrong.

[senocular]

Egypt bans 'too religious' Matrix

"The country's censorship board said the film's storyline, about the search for the creator and control of the human race, may cause 'crises'"

Doh! hate it when that happens ;) heh.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/2980432.stm

[Cello]

Saw it last night.

Yes, there is great depth to the film - if you want to find it.

Fighting - far too much, (big yawn factor).

Ending far too abrupt.

Carrie Moss/Trinity - OMG, I'm in love

Plagiarism? Scene where the 'Traffic' controllers were guiding Nebu into safe bay, with big white screens that they moved elements around with their hands? Sure I've seen that somewhere before...

Summary - great movie worth seeing, however number 3 will be the one to watch...

[senocular]

lol... yeah you cant help but thing minority report there - but its not the first place the concept of such interfaces were used ;) It seems pretty standard for the way they will become.

[TheOrangeOne]

Originally posted by senocular
It seems pretty standard for the way they will become.
oooh, i hope so! (dreams of massive transparent screen surrounding desk) ....mmmmm.....shiny.......