text editor or WYSIWYG

[zerokilled]

I had been wondering a long time ago which is the better way to construct website page that is compliant with the actual standard of XHTML and CSS. Worse yet, how designer in the industry prefer to construct pages, using text editor or and WYSIWYG? Anyway, in the last three years that I have been learning web design by myself, i have been using a simple text editor like Wordpad or Notepad in Windows. I know the advantage and disadvantage of both way, but i'm wondering if using text editor still acceptable in the industry.

I have never done website for other people or companies, so that is the reason of my doubt. any comment is welcome, thanks...

[Anogar]

Short answer: Whatever you can make something look better in. That's what your client wants. :thumb2:

And yes, if you can bust out pages in a text editor, that's perfectly acceptable, even more so than using a WYSIWYG editor.

[simplistik]

doesn't really matter what you use... I use a "WYSIWYG" editor (dreamweaver)... but I never actually use the WYSIWYG part of it, but other apps outside of notepad tend to be a tad more effiencent as it has syntax highlighting, and auto-complete... few other things like that, that can help your processes more. You will prolly much more efficient since you've only used a simple text editor.

[bwh2]

if you're interested in making it standards compliant, you will have more luck hard coding via text editor.

[simplistik]

if you're interested in making it standards compliant, you will have more luck hard coding via text editor.
how?

[bwh2]

using semantic code is part of web standards, and something that WYSIWYG editors are not very good at. WYSIWYG editors are also not yet great at writing code with sound structure.

certainly WYSIWYG editors can produce validated code, but just because code passes through a parser/validator does not mean that it's standards compliant.

[DDD]

how?

Because of the the code hints and auto complete and in app validation. I think that person is on about. Personally I now use DW, Homesite and topstyle together for my coding. I dont use DWs design pane as much lately. Topstyle is the balls tho.

depends how you use your editor WYSIWYG. I can generate valid code much faster than doing it in notepad. Depends on the individual and their use of the tool.

[aldomatic]

i personaly use topstyle for coding a site, i use DW at times, but i got so used to topstyle

[evildrummer]

i used to use dreamweaver but not the design view but now I have started using Aptana(really good for XHTML, CSS) for a while because of that darn nokrev for finding it!

[bwh2]

i used to use dreamweaver but not the design view but now I have started using Aptana(really good for XHTML, CSS) for a while because of that darn nokrev for finding it!ah yes. that reminds me to download it.

[simplistik]

using semantic code is part of web standards, and something that WYSIWYG editors are not very good at. WYSIWYG editors are also not yet great at writing code with sound structure.

certainly WYSIWYG editors can produce validated code, but just because code passes through a parser/validator does not mean that it's standards compliant.
But wouldn't it be the users responsibility to manipulate the non-compliant code into compliant... for instance if in note pad I have to type say...


<table>
<tr>
<th><h1>header</h1></th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<p>some text<br/>more text</p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>

but in say DW I goto the menu (not sure what the actual menu item is) and select table insert the table and the then type... and DW outputs <br/> as <br> wouldn't be quicker to have done the drop down and just change <br> to <br/> instead of typed all of it out STILL making the same mistake that DW made w/ the <br>?

now me I personally don't work that way... I don't use the menus at all... however, I just thought i'd throw that out there, cause everyone is quick to blame everything on the WYSIWYG editors when blame should go to the user 99% of the time.

[bwh2]

i agree with you that many compliance issues are the user's fault and not the WYSIWYG editor's fault. but typically the WYSIWYG editor isn't really helping either.

from my experience, the best way to learn how to design code (because that's really the heart of my argument), is to actually look at the code and rethink how code should be structured.

[DDD]

you guys are both right in a sense. WYSIWYGs promote laziness in a lazy/inexperienced developer. But in the hands of the capable, it is a value added tool. I use it for a lot shortcuts. Like "format source code". Again the developer makes the tool not the other way around. SO I guess that makes Simplistik more right than you :lol:

[bwh2]

pssshh. i'll just ignore that last sentence.

anyhow, i'm definitely into promoting laziness. as robert heinlein once said, "progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things."

btw, what's with the low quality of your avatar?

[DDD]

btw, what's with the low quality of your avatar?
I'm lazy...:lol:

I dont know actually....its 50x50....just kinda left it. Whats the avatar size?

[bwh2]

50x50 is the avatar size. your avatar is just much lower quality than for instance the logo on your splash page.

[Jeff Wheeler]

I promote text editors… I personally find it easier to write nice, elegant code that WYSIWYG apps often don't produce.

I suggest Aptana on Windows…

[ZephyrWest]

Aptana is okay, but I find that it's code completion isn't as well developed as other editors/IDEs. I'm a Dreamweaver fan myself. :)

[blazes]

I'm a dreamweaver lover. If you don't like using a WYSIWYG, that's fine with me, but if you bash it, I see that as you wanting to be 1337 and thinking your more of a coder than anyone else.

[evildrummer]

Aptana is auto editor is a pain sometimes for example:

<li><a href="#">dummy</a><li>
Turns into:
<li><a href="<"li> which is a pain but I like it as its light weight and doesnt slow down my system.

[Jeff Wheeler]

I haven't specifically used Aptana; I've used Eclipse a lot which it's based on, and I've looked at the screenshots extensively. I'll try it now.

[zerokilled]

well guys, I want to give my thanks to everyone whom contributed in sharing comments about the thread. I agree with most of yours comments guys. however, I prefer using text editor than a WYSIWYG because I can really manage two aspect: 1) file size, and 2) I got full control, with this I means to prevent extra code like WYSIWYG apps often do. I know that in text editor the process is more longer and so on, but I prefer spending one or three hours doing clean code than nasty code. And the other reason is that I want to be serious and as good as possible in this field. BTW, I consider WYSIWYG apps as a good tool, not for lazy people, but for designer that is not requiered to learn code.

Again, thanks to everyone and hope this thread keep going, so I can see others point of view from others.