how to convert swf to fla?

[ayumilove]

hi guys

is it possible to convert?
secondly how to view the swf structure (similar to fla) so i could learn how pro make their
swf

[REEF·]

Thats not um...thats kinda shameful if you gotta break someone elses work to learn...you already lost in the game :sigh:.

[ayumilove]

Thats not um...thats kinda shameful if you gotta break someone elses work to...you already lost in the game :sigh:.

isnt it learning from ppl much faster?
as you see here, if you see how people make, then you can innovate another flash
which is much better, as well as speeding up the time to learn.

[REEF·]

Yeah but you're not learning, you're illegally breaking into their work and seeing how their layers are ordered and what tweens they use. That doesnt teach you squat does it?

[freeskier89]

I want to learn more about home decoration, so... can anyone show me how to break in a house?

But really, never does innovation come from stealing. You have take time to try to learn, it is not instant. It would be better to open your mind and eyes rather than a decompiler. :-/

[ayumilove]

illegally? o.o"

btw, my main question is there a method to convert it or look into the structure?

[REEF·]

NO there isnt.

Once again if you break into it, you wont learn how something was done or how it was planned, you'll just see the final product of things just placed there. It wont teach you -anything-

[freeskier89]

Yeah it is illegal to my knowledge. It is modifying ones property without consent. It is no different than trying to decompile normal windows applications, which is strictly forbidden under the license agreement.

[Jeff Wheeler]

Pretty much, what they're trying to say, is that it's immoral, and generally against “the rules.” ;)

[ayumilove]

Yeah it is illegal to my knowledge. It is modifying ones property without consent. It is no different than trying to decompile normal windows applications, which is strictly forbidden under the license agreement.

ok i know its illegal, is there a way to do it?

[Jeff Wheeler]

No.

[freeskier89]

ok i know its illegal, is there a way to do it? Hell, there is a way to do anything in this world. You will just have to figure it out yourself, which I recommend you NOT do.

[REEF·]

ok i know its illegal, is there a way to do it?No there is no way to do it. Turn back and stop being stubborn and learn flash the hard way like everyone else did. You dont seem to sink in what I say do you? If you break into the files you wont LEARN ANYTHING. All you see is the layers and tweens theres nothing to it, nothing there is teaching you.

:a:

[freeskier89]

We need an official "why in the hell do you not understand" smily or tag

[Templarian]

This is the most immoral way of learning there is... its not even learning its just confusing yourself. Learn don't copy and paste (thats what javascript is for not flash).

[REEF·]

Can somebody please lock this thread? Before some idiot comes in and rots the little kid with evil powers?

[ELUDZ]

Yeah but you're not learning, you're illegally breaking into their work and seeing how their layers are ordered and what tweens they use. That doesnt teach you squat does it?

--- why is it evil to use a _something_ :) some people are visual learners.. and just need to see how it is done once.. to know how to do it in the future.. or they may never learn from their own research.. i understand that but don't necessarily respect it either.. but eh.. *shrug* .. ---

(*sorry that first part was for a different thread.. i combined 2 msg's there.. opps!*)

[REEF·]

No clue what you're saying but what does it look like everyone is doing? We're TRYING to keep this kid away from the evilness!

[freeskier89]

Eludz, I hope your post made sense in your head, because it sure didn't in mine.

btw: I second REEF's demand

[freeskier89]

some people are visual learners.. and just need to see how it is done once.. to know how to do it in the future.. Why not use a tutorial and a bit of creativity? :look:

[REEF·]

Okay.

Why not make an FLA yourself. Close it. Open it again and see what you can learn from it? Especially one thats complexly built, how do you learn flash from looking at layers and tweens???

You dont wanna learn, you just wanna copy and paste codes and get it over with and just be a good flash designer in a matter of seconds :sigh:

[bigmtnskier]

Write your own _thing that makes fla_, then you will appreciate the work that goes into a project.. like that flash one.

Learn via experimentation--not by illegally decompiling other peoples' products of creativity.

[REEF·]

Remove the D word Remove the D word Remove the D word Remove the D word Remove the D word Remove the D word Remove the D word Remove the D word Remove the D word Remove the D word Remove the D word Remove the D word

[ayumilove]

sigh you guys being so hostile for the sake of illegal
everything has its pros and cons, not everything is bad

and another thing is people have its own method of learning
for me, i learn quite fast from seeing people flash or swf, and then ask
questions in the forum the parts i dont understand. then reinovating the method
to display a content.

also
using the technique of converting swf to flash enable a flash programmer
to change the settings for a client flash program done by a previous programmer
instead of remaking the whole thing again

nvm about it, i found my answer in the google search

there is a swf to flash converter ^^

[bigmtnskier]

Done. Sorry about that reef :(

[λ]

I want to learn more about home decoration, so... can anyone show me how to break in a house?

That's a fairly poor analogy. A better one might be "Someone's given me this VCR, so can someone show me how to take it apart and learn how it works". It's not even really any more different from viewing source on a web page to be honest, what with SWF being an open standard.


Yeah it is illegal to my knowledge. It is modifying ones property without consent. It is no different than trying to decompile normal windows applications, which is strictly forbidden under the license agreement.

Need I say any more? It's forbidden by the license agreement, which is something you agreed to when you installed the application. No such agreement (usually) applies to SWFs on the web, and court cases have maintained that disassembly can be legal.

I don't understand why so many people feel this is somehow "immoral".. Yes, copying and pasting other people's code is wrong without permission and ripping is morally dubious, but I don't understand how decompiling something purely to learn can possibly be wrong.

Try something by Sothink (http://www.sothink.com/), I hear they make good decompilers, although I've never used one.

[ayumilove]

Okay.

Why not make an FLA yourself. Close it. Open it again and see what you can learn from it? Especially one thats complexly built, how do you learn flash from looking at layers and tweens???

You dont wanna learn, you just wanna copy and paste codes and get it over with and just be a good flash designer in a matter of seconds :sigh:

my programming teacher says its much faster then remaking one
reenginnering is way much faster to get the intended result

thats the fact

[REEF·]

there is a swf to flash converter ^^Dam it...lost another one.

Good luck kid. Have a great time becoming an honest designer :sigh:. Like A recommended, try sothink decompilers.

And I highly disagree with your "teacher." I cant stand teachers involved with computers.

[ELUDZ]

it's not like every tutorial writer puts their all into it.. nor do they always explain things
in a way that is fully comprehendable to someone that has no clue on the matter..

some are very good.. don't get me wrong.. but some assume to much and leave you
hanging wondering.. and most people goto school to learn this ****.. where there are
other people helping other people do it physically which is even less self learning than
just using an 'evil' method..

i've never actually used the 'evil' method.. but seen the torrents around places.. and
thought hmm.. interesting.. but nah.. it's like crack.. some give in to the weakness and
some motivate from the strength of not submitting..


Why not use a tutorial and a bit of creativity? :look:

[ayumilove]

reef, sometimes you have to share knowledge on bad and good things
having no knowledge is worse than having some knowledge, and then it comes
to the person ability to judge whether is it right to do or not. let the person decide.

thanks for the D word :)

[bigmtnskier]

nvm about it, i found my answer in the google search

there is a swf to flash converter ^^
Yes, you will learn one thing from a "converter:" Hard work and devotion will never be safe from a 12 year old who learns via the lowest form of "learning..."

"Hm.. that line looks good... lets just copy it into my project and see if it works."

:(

[REEF·]

Well I'm sharing that your plan is a bad thing. I dont know how much you plan to learn but go ahead, theres no stopping you now.

[ayumilove]

Yes, you will learn one thing from a "converter:" Hard work and devotion will never be safe from a 12 year old who learns via the lowest form of "learning..."

"Hm.. that line looks good... lets just copy it into my project and see if it works."

:(

sometimes assumption can go wrong
for me, i try to understand it first in order to make the piece of codes work
for my flash, i have to make some adjustment to it,

btw having 2 ways of learning is better than 1, hope this will enlighten everyone who read this

[junkerjorg]

You guys are so right on!! Looking at someone else's finished product will do absolutely nothing to help you learn and ayumilove knows that! He/she doesn't want to learn they want to steal. It is illegal to copy someone elses completed work, the legal definition of stealing electronic works is Plagiarism!! You will learn so much more in Flash if you follow tutorials and experiment! I am by no means a master but what little I know has come from hours and hours of trying, failing, asking for help, and reading thousands of tutorials!! Do it the old fashioned way ayumilove, learn it, you'll thank yourself later!!

[REEF·]

Junker you're right about everything else but he doesnt wanna steal he just wants to see the swf and learn "how its done" I guess.

[junkerjorg]

Junker you're right about everything else but he doesnt wanna steal he just wants to see the swf and learn "how its done" I guess.

It's a sign of our lazy generation I guess, kids today don't want to work hard to achieve anything. They want someone else to do the hard work, modify it and brag about how good they are!! Sad sad story!!

[REEF·]

Thats what the rest of us were tryin to say but nowadays you cant really stop anyone you know??? A simple google search can answer the wonders of the world.

[ayumilove]

It's a sign of our lazy generation I guess, kids today don't want to work hard to achieve anything. They want someone else to do the hard work, modify it and brag about how good they are!! Sad sad story!!

why force yourself on the negative points
there is positive as well
think ahead =)

[freeskier89]

It's a sign of our lazy generation I guess, kids today don't want to work hard to achieve anything. They want someone else to do the hard work, modify it and brag about how good they are!! Sad sad story!! I agree.

I simply do not understand how someone can decompile someone's work that they have spent ages on, and not even care what the author thinks about it. I am sorry, but this is ridiculous to me. It shows absolutely no respect to the author. If you want the source, ASK the author. If they do not mind they'll give you the fla. If they do mind, do not decompile it, but just live with it.

Mindsets like yours ayumilove make me want to make me bang my head against the wall. I'm 16, and I can truly witness our lazy generation like junkerjorg was saying. I'll leave it at this, but please do respond this final question.

Why do not think of taking the time of asking the author for permission?

[bigmtnskier]

my programming teacher says its much faster then remaking one
reenginnering is way much faster to get the intended result

thats the fact
Your "programming" teacher? Are you referring to the person that dictates to you what bold typeface is in Word? Take any advice from a "programming" teacher (except for at college) as a grain of salt. They generally (note λ, I said generally.. you don't need to try your hardest to rip on me) don't always have the best practices. Yes, reengineering is faster--BUT you should only do it on your own software (or open-source software). When learning, you should not be trying to find a fast way.

The fast way is... Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V. I'm sorry that someone hasn't tought you the values of using someone else's work without permission.

I suppose your intent is good. Although, things like these later develop into habits, and you will be kicking yourself for it later.

-bigmtnskier :(

I'm also disheartened to see a mod stooping to the level of decompilers.

Damn decompilers. Would anyone like to create an "I hate decompilers club?"

[ayumilove]

Your "programming" teacher? Are you referring to the person that dictates to you what bold typeface is in Word? Take any advice from a "programming" teacher (except for at college) as a grain of salt. They generally (note λ, I said generally.. you don't need to try your hardest to rip on me) don't always have the best practices. Yes, reengineering is faster--BUT you should only do it on your own software (or open-source software). When learning, you should not be trying to find a fast way.

The fast way is... Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V. I'm sorry that someone hasn't tought you the values of using someone else's work without permission.

I suppose your intent is good. Although, things like these later develop into habits, and you will be kicking yourself for it later.

-bigmtnskier :(

I'm also disheartened to see a mod stooping to the level of decompilers.

Damn decompilers. Would anyone like to create an "I hate decompilers club?"

thanks for your advice , big ^^
i'll remember it

[hybrid101]

but still, wouldn't it be illegal to do that? i mean, decompiling is morally wrong.
good luck not ripping other people's work.
and this is the reason people made tutorials. not to decompile swf's.

[REEF·]

Damn decompilers. Would anyone like to create an "I hate decompilers club?"Lol i'd join. But yeah from my experiences (while some might be good), I've concluded I hate ALL teachers in school involved in computers or anything relating. They are just so dam bookwise and ruin creativity I hate em :a:.

[ayumilove]

hi reef can you help me out in my problem topics?
http://www.kirupa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225256
this is a link to one of my problem, please help me T_T

[freeskier89]

I am up for joining :D.

By the way ayumilove, Why did you not answer my question? I think it would truly clarify to us why you feel so strongly about reverse-engineering.

Edit, oh god. ayumilove, I cannot believe you asked that to REEF. You are looking for trouble now.

[hybrid101]

why not just ask the author instead for a source, instead of decompiling it?
does that satisfy the main question?

[Jeff Wheeler]

Do you think 2A has a template email they send to people who rip their site, because it's so common? Like, maybe they have an automated script, where all they have to do is submit the url. It might even personalize it a bit based on whois info. :)

[REEF·]

hi reef can you help me out in my problem topics?
http://www.kirupa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225256
this is a link to one of my problem, please help me T_TYou know I should say go decompile it and "learn" yourself but I wont. I posted the answers in the thread.

lol @ free

[hybrid101]

:lol: nice one nokrev;)
i don't think so. gimme a site ripping 2advanced for example:)

[REEF·]

Nah I dont think they care too much, its just disrespect that someone would be opening up your hard work and then even more disrespect to steal every bit of how it looks and functions and slap it onto a website.

[freeskier89]

lol


You know I should say go decompile it and "learn" yourself but I wont. I posted the answers in the thread.

lol @ freeLol: I thought about replying pretty nastily, but I refrained from doing it :D You must be a lot more tolerant than I am :D

[ayumilove]

ok guys could you please help me out? please

[REEF·]

I posted the answers in the thread.Man are you reading the posts in this thread? Cause I'm not sure if you are.

[hybrid101]

if it means decompiling an swf, no.
but if you want to learn how to make good fla, yes

[Pasquale]

ok guys could you please help me out? please
Hello are ya there?
People are posting and saying stuff
Read !!!!

[hybrid101]

^what he said:)

[JoshuaJonah]

I posted a little code on the thread too that will make it a little faster.

[ayumilove]

sorry guy, i actually refresh the page but there is no post inside, i have to wait like 5 minutes like navigating else where then reopen this page to see the new replies :-/

[ELUDZ]

all this moral BLAH is making me sick..

looking at how someone did something shouldn't be viewed as stealing someone's work,
stealing it by copy and pasting it is another story.. and most times it won't just work by doing that anyways..

also.. how is somoene going to get a hold of someone's SWF file when it is on their web host's server / or on their harddrive if they are running a local server such as IIS..

how??? and if someone is dumb enough to be putting there SWF files out there for people to see for pride, that is their own fault.. lastly.. all this energy and activism should be put forth to stop war and directed at the war lords that are destroying the world beneathe our feet.

think about those that can't afford to buy proper books on the subject or pay for video tutorial memberships on websites that are popping up all over and visually teaching everyone without study also.. everything is unravelling from every direction and my advice to all those stressing about this issue needs to let it go, because it's far from controllable at this point with torrents.. and not to mention TEMPLATE sites that sell things so dirt cheap it is almost putting everyone out of a job because of having to make so many more sites to survive.. those are the REAL problem to us designers.. the guys with the HUGE template sites and membership fees to access 1000's of free layouts to copy and paste information into.. the design is the hardest part.. not the coding.. because once coding is learned it's straight forward with the exception of the time it takes to type the code.. the design aspects of website creation is what is being attacked most - not the coding aspects, since coding is the part that anyone can do.. it's the LAYOUTS that take hours of vision and thought to make something truely innovating..

and also.. what is the difference of someone decompiling something or one of you guys posting code to do a task for someone? tell me that... just stop the lame arguments.. and
stop thinking about things that are irrelevant to the survival of our race as a whole, and focus more attention to real world events and what is going on outside the box.

i say this because 90% of laws are inhumane and have only one purpose and that is the profit of a corporate owner & the share holders who don't think about anything except money and world domination.

[REEF·]

^ All that typing was unnecessary. We're past that now. And cut the not being able to afford books crap, thats what a forums is here for :sigh:.

[Jeff Wheeler]

also.. how is somoene going to get a hold of someone's SWF file when it is on their web host's server / or on their harddrive if they are running a local server such as IIS..

how??? and if someone is dumb enough to be putting there SWF files out there for people to see for pride, that is their own fault.. lastly.. all this energy and activism should be put forth to stop war and directed at the war lords that are destroying the world beneathe our feet.

Either you don't understand what HTTP is, or you don't understand what an SWF is. Let me explain.

When you go to a web-page, your browser connects to the web server and downloads the html page. It also downloads any related files, such as images, css, javascript, and swfs. This is necessary to properly see the page.

An SWF file contains the information for the Flash Player to play the animation. Without the SWF, it can't use the site.

So, really, you download the SWF every time you view a Flash site. :)


think about those that can't afford to buy proper books on the subject or pay for video tutorial memberships on websites that are popping up all over and visually teaching everyone without study also.. everything is unravelling from every direction and my advice to all those stressing about this issue needs to let it go, because it's far from controllable at this point with torrents.. and not to mention TEMPLATE sites that sell things so dirt cheap it is almost putting everyone out of a job because of having to make so many more sites to survive.. those are the REAL problem to us designers.. the guys with the HUGE template sites and membership fees to access 1000's of free layouts to copy and paste information into.. the design is the hardest part.. not the coding.. because once coding is learned it's straight forward with the exception of the time it takes to type the code.. the design aspects of website creation is what is being attacked most - not the coding aspects, since coding is the part that anyone can do.. it's the LAYOUTS that take hours of vision and thought to make something truely innovating..

In regards to your argument about those who can't afford video sites or books, that's a lame excuse for decompiling. There are tons of free resources, such as this one, which let you learn easily.

As for competition from the template sites… I think that's rather irrelevant. Aren't we discussing the morality of SWF de-compilation?


and also.. what is the difference of someone decompiling something or one of you guys posting code to do a task for someone? tell me that... just stop the lame arguments.. and stop thinking about things that are irrelevant to the survival of our race as a whole, and focus more attention to real world events and what is going on outside the box.

People don't do that: they ask for the FLA. ;)


i say this because 90% of laws are inhumane and have only one purpose and that is the profit of a corporate owner & the share holders who don't think about anything except money and world domination.

Again, this is completely irrelevant.

[bigmtnskier]

all this moral BLAH is making me sick..
looking at how someone did something shouldn't be viewed as stealing someone's work,
stealing it by copy and pasting it is another story.. and most times it won't just work by doing that anyways.. ... ... ... ...


A long post deserves a long reply. (Thanks nokrev for taking care of part of it)

*takes deep breath*


and most times it won't just work by doing that anyways..
Very true indeed. Although, when copying and pasting tokens, you don't exactly remember the naming conventions used. That is a very large part of programming. For instance, good luck learning assembly with the copy-paste method (the pnemonics of movlf, movpf, dt, dv, et cetera isn't exactly easy to grasp by plugging certain parts of the code into your program).


think about those that can't afford to buy proper books on the subject or pay for video tutorial memberships
I totally agree with reef. The ONLY book I have on programming is entitled "Windows 2000 Graphics API," and I consider myself fairly advanced in a variety of languages. There are other methods of learning how to program. For instance, I learned the basics of C# by spending hours browsing through the IntelliSense menu along with sheer experimentation. I haven't ever followed a formal tutorial. Yes, I have looked at paragraphs of some, but I really don't have the time to read the thing.


i say this because 90% of laws are inhumane
This is really skewed. Laws are set forth to keep people in this world under control. If laws aren't in place, people will just do as they damn please. You might take this statement back when you visit some of the not so
nice corners of the world.


what is the difference of someone decompiling something or one of you guys posting code to do a task for someone?

Hm.. There is one rather large one. For someone to help someone else out, they obviously give consent for the transfer of information. Say that someone worked really hard on a flash project and wished to keep the techniques and/or code a secret for some reason, then.. someone comes along, decompiles the work, and exploits it. How hard is it to email the author and ask for the source-code? If he/she says no, come up with your own unique way of making the effect. Yes, this takes a longer time, but it makes you use your brain a bit more. As reef stated, you can always use the forums here and/or tutorials. Everyone learns differently:

Visual: gotoandlearn video tutorials, tutorials w/images, ...
Auditory: gotoandlearn video tutorials, ...
Hands on: experimentation. code, test, code, test, code, test...
And others of course... Again, as nokrev said, there are tons and tons of free resources on the internet.



all this energy and activism should be put forth to stop war and directed at the war lords that are destroying the world beneathe our feet
Again, this is really off-topic and is bringing your personal political views into this issue.

All in all, decompiling doesn't aid your learning; it prohibits it. End of Post.

[hybrid101]

All in all, decompiling doesn't aid your learning; it prohibits it. End of Post.amen.
now i'll wait till a mod closes this. it's gone too far.

[Pasquale]

I want to start an anti n00b opinion club ( well some n00bs are ok but this is just hillarious :lol:)

Cool i'll call it ANOC :kommie:

[λ]

the legal definition of stealing electronic works is Plagiarism!!

Actually plagiarism is sometimes not a crime and is more a case of ethics, unless it also involves copyright violation.


This is really skewed. Laws are set forth to keep people in this world under control. If laws aren't in place, people will just do as they damn please. You might take this statement back when you visit some of the not so nice corners of the world.

It's a good thing Martin Luther King Jr. didn't have that attitude..


For someone to help someone else out, they obviously give consent for the transfer of information.

If that applied to books, you'd need the author's permission before reading something.


Say that someone worked really hard on a flash project and wished to keep the techniques and/or code a secret for some reason, then.. someone comes along, decompiles the work, and exploits it. How hard is it to email the author and ask for the source-code? If he/she says no, come up with your own unique way of making the effect. Yes, this takes a longer time, but it makes you use your brain a bit more. As reef stated, you can always use the forums here and/or tutorials. Everyone learns differently:

So let's see. According to you, all these are immoral:


Disassembling a driver so you can write a compatible driver for Linux, for example
Taking apart a piece of computer equipment to see if you can find out how it works
Disassembly of the IBM PC BIOS so compatible computers could be producedIBM, after all, most certainly did not want their computer reverse engineered. I doubt they would have emailed Compaq the BIOS source code, if they'd asked. And if you think that this means that the production of the IBM PC clones was immoral, then I suggest you destroy your computer right now.

[evildrummer]

when I first got in to flash I used to try and decompile stuff, but Ive matured and its actually really bad i mean yes you can edit variables and stuff and see what it does but it means you will never be able to make something fully on your ow unless you do tutorials like the ones here on kirupa, thats how i learn. also if you do learn better by looking at .fla's then dont just decompile ones off the net study from ones that people actually allow you to that way you cant get in trouble.

[freeskier89]

Actually plagiarism is sometimes not a crime and is more a case of ethics, unless it also involves copyright violation.



It's a good thing Martin Luther King Jr. didn't have that attitude..



If that applied to books, you'd need the author's permission before reading something.



So let's see. According to you, all these are immoral:

Disassembling a driver so you can write a compatible driver for Linux, for example
Taking apart a piece of computer equipment to see if you can find out how it works
Disassembly of the IBM PC BIOS so compatible computers could be producedIBM, after all, most certainly did not want their computer reverse engineered. I doubt they would have emailed Compaq the BIOS source code, if they'd asked. And if you think that this means that the production of the IBM PC clones was immoral, then I suggest you destroy your computer right now. λ, you never read everything in context do you? Both in the 500ghz processor thread, and this one. For one, I bet that Martin Luther King did not believe >>90%<< (Which is what we were talking about. I feel like I have to make these parenthesises too many times replying to your threads) of the laws were unnecessary. And NO your book analogy does NOT apply. Books are intended to be read. The author would have no problem with a person reading it. The swf format is not intended to be decompiled. About your whole IBM argument, yes it was immoral, and no I won't throw a way my computer.

[Pasquale]

amen :)

[Sliker_Hawk]

What's so wrong with decompiling if it's for educational uses?
It's not illegal unless it's used commercially and you're only looking at it to see how they made a certain effect. If you come across something and want to know how it's made without having to search potentially for hours, then the best thing to do is decompile it.

Why do you all have such a huge problem with it?

It's not confusing; I have learnt form it (when I knew much less about Flash than I do now, however) but I've only ever done it to non-commercial swf's... You just need to know the boundaries, and decompiling a public SWF isn't past them.

[pay360]

silver_hawk
I can agree with your statement. BUT more times than not, its used for things that are illegal. This is why people have problems with decompiling. I would say most of us have (well I hope so) have learned the hard way. Trial and error. Some people never want to go through that error process, its to hard for them. They just want to reap the benefits through someone else's work. With this said I really see no difference if used correctly then if someone would buy a flash template, and learn from that. I know of many people that have learned that way. Maybe thats not the road that some people would take, but its not for me to past judgment on them.

[bigmtnskier]

I totally agree with freeskier. Almost all (I said almost) of your posts are totally out of context.

Please lambda, if you are going to respond to our posts, respond in the proper context to what we are saying rather than throwing in analogous statements that do not relate. This goes for this thread along with the 500ghz processor/transistor thread.

That point you brought up about Martin Luther King Jr. is totally irrelevant and skewed. He didn't believe that every law (or even 90%) in America was ridiculous. Rather, he felt strongly about an issue that was plauging the nation and took action; I honor him for that. Again, your statement was did not relate to my post at all.

You said, "If that applied to books, you'd need the author's permission before reading something." Did you not read my post correctly? I clearly stated that people who help other people out via posts, tutorials, et cetera obviously give concent for the transfer of information. A book would indeed qualify in that group.

And since ayumilove won't answer the question, how about you since you obviously don't reject to the use of decompilers. Why can't you just email the author of the file and ask for permission? If the author says no, and wishes to keep the techniques to him/herself, would you go ahead and decompile it?

Again, I am disappointed to see a mod supporting and promoting immoral activites such as decompiling.

I'll leave it at this.

-bigmtnskier

[DDD]

Okay I didnt really read this whole thread, but.... with that being said. Not all people use these things for evil. I am guilty of using one every now and again to revive a swf that I lost the .fla to. Or just peak in on someones code. But that is where it stops with me. It becomes a matter of morals. I dont think there is any kind of legal ramifications or license agreements when it come to a swf in general.

And ayumilove, most people here feel so strongly about it because the bulk of us are in the industry and knows what kind of time is often invested in a piece of work. And it sounds a bit disrespectful for you to ask such a thing, especially to us. But was it wrong? IMO no. Had I seen this topic earlier I would have ended it, but still answered your question. Long as you are not using it for evil, then you are cool. Will we ever know? Probably not. But I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt (not that that matters anyway). So in the end, there are better ways for you to learn AS. But as I said, I am guilty of peaking at times because a effect is so awesome. Just keep it moral.

[JoshuaJonah]

amen to that brotha.

[Seb Hughes]

ayumilovem your saying you want to learn Macromedia Flash good luck with that as it doesnt even exist. It is Adobe Flash also looking at sombody code isnt going to help you. I see alot of cars around do I know how to mak eone NO. Will i ever be able to make a car by looking at one NO. You gotta learn the way it is ment to be. Short cuts dont get you anywhere in life.

[λ]

λ, you never read everything in context do you? Both in the 500ghz processor thread, and this one.
I read things in context, but I reply mainly to general points.


That point you brought up about Martin Luther King Jr. is totally irrelevant and skewed. He didn't believe that every law (or even 90%) in America was ridiculous. Rather, he felt strongly about an issue that was plauging the nation and took action; I honor him for that. Again, your statement was did not relate to my post at all.
Of course. Nobody believes that 90% of the laws in a country are ridiculous, but MLK's general feeling was that if you feel a law is wrong then it is not immoral to break it. I was replying to the general point that laws are around to help people and keep them safe, something which cannot be said about laws like the DMCA (which do relate to this issue, and others like it).


You said, "If that applied to books, you'd need the author's permission before reading something." Did you not read my post correctly? I clearly stated that people who help other people out via posts, tutorials, et cetera obviously give concent for the transfer of information. A book would indeed qualify in that group.
Not all books. Think about, for instance, an AppleCare manual. They're not meant to be read by people outside Apple, and Apple has tried to stop people outside of Apple from reading them (specifically when people found out how much thermal paste was being applied on MacBooks)


And since ayumilove won't answer the question, how about you since you obviously don't reject to the use of decompilers. Why can't you just email the author of the file and ask for permission? If the author says no, and wishes to keep the techniques to him/herself, would you go ahead and decompile it?
I've already said that I don't use disassemblers, but if I did I might well do as you say first. I don't know whether I would disassemble even if they said no (it would probably depend on the circumstances), but I definitely would defend someone's right to do it. I hardly think it's especially moral to try and stop someone from learning from something you have done either..


Again, I am disappointed to see a mod supporting and promoting immoral activites such as decompiling.
These are my opinions (and as I've said so many times before, what's "immoral" is very much a matter of opinion). If people don't like them then they can decide what to do about me, but I don't see how it affects my permission as mod as long as I don't ban someone I disagree with..


I see alot of cars around do I know how to mak eone NO. Will i ever be able to make a car by looking at one NO
I think it's more a case of whether you'd be able to learn how to make a car by taking one apart, to which the answer is "possibly", and more about whether it's a moral thing to do.

[ELUDZ]

i knew about cached .swf ...

i just said it to misdirect him back to tutorials, since everyone wanted me to.

i was reversing my statements that led him in a bad direction.. and using a decompiler is not exactly an easy task for a newbie.. it is pretty fricken cryptic.. i just made it seem like it wasn't possible for him to get .swf's from anywhere he wanted.. but anyways.. enough about this topic.. cause decompilers are not an easy task.. to understand.. and if can figure that out.. he can figure out pretty much anything..

[bigmtnskier]

Of course. Nobody believes that 90% of the laws in a country are ridiculous, but MLK's general feeling was that if you feel a law is wrong then it is not immoral to break it. I was replying to the general point that laws are around to help people and keep them safe, something which cannot be said about laws like the DMCA (which do relate to this issue, and others like it).

I was responding to his/her generalization that 90% of laws are rediculous. You then, brought up the irrelevant argument that Martin Luther King Jr disapproved one. Laws IN GENERAL are too keep people safe. SOME do not though. I am well aware of that. Don't read so literally.

Do I have to use words like "generally", "approximately", "about", et cetera, in every one of my posts to make you not bring up out-of-context arguments?

In the 500ghz thread, freeskier said "There sure is (in a sense)! Well there is not a clock speed, but there are minimum switching time." You replied confidently that switching time is different than clocks speed. Isn't it clearly apparent that he knew that?!


Not all books. Think about, for instance, an AppleCare manual. They're not meant to be read by people outside Apple, and Apple has tried to stop people outside of Apple from reading them (specifically when people found out how much thermal paste was being applied on MacBooks)

I was talking about books IN GENERAL. I was not specifically talking about an individual book like your example of the AppleShare book. Here you bring up small share of the spectrum. Again, I should of used "almost all books" in my post, but I thought you had the ability to place a similar phrase in there without having it right in front of your eyes. If you read stuff word for word and so literally, like you have been lately, you are going to bring up cases such as this AppleShare book--which really don't relate to my post. It is really one of the weakest forms of argument. I encourage you to open your mind and read a little beyond the text.

Again, don't read so literally. People's intent or thoughts aren't exactly what they write.

-bigmtnskier

[λ]

In the 500ghz thread, freeskier said "There sure is (in a sense)! Well there is not a clock speed, but there are minimum switching time." You replied confidently that switching time is different than clocks speed. Isn't it clearly apparent that he knew that?!

I'm not particularly interested in discussing that thread (that is, after all, another thread), but he'd replied to my post saying that transistors didn't have a clock speed by saying that they did. Even in a sense, a transistor does not have a "clock speed"; a clock speed is controlled usually by an external oscillator or timer and measures the time taken by the chip to execute a basic instruction whereas the switching rate of a transistor measures the time taken to respond to a change in voltage. They're different things.


I was talking about books IN GENERAL. I was not specifically talking about an individual book like your example of the AppleShare book. Here you bring up small share of the spectrum. Again, I should of used "almost all books" in my post, but I thought you had the ability to place a similar phrase in there without having it right in front of your eyes. If you read stuff word for word and so literally, like you have been lately, you are going to bring up cases such as this AppleShare book--which really don't relate to my post. It is really one of the weakest forms of argument. I encourage you to open your mind and read a little beyond the text

I'm sure I can find plenty of other counterexamples, if you really want..


Again, don't read so literally. People's intent or thoughts aren't exactly what they write.

-bigmtnskier

This is the internet. There's no such thing as tone, there's no such thing as facial expressions. I don't know you personally, so I can't try to ascertain what you are trying to say. What you write is the best indication I have as to what you are thinking, so you should try to write what you mean.

[REEF·]

I say we leave it at that. Do you really think either of you are gonna convince anyone? Good points from all sides but we should end the discussion before it gets heated up (even though its been calm).

[λ]

Eh, fair, closed, I guess..

[kirupa]

Wow - while I agree with bigmtn and free, this isn't the time nor the place to discuss your beliefs/morals (or lack thereof) when it comes to not stealing other people's information. This thread is closed. Martin Luther King, Buddha, Al Sharpton, Kevin Spacey, and 9 out of 10 dentists would like this thread to be closed also.

There is nothing really admirable about using or encouraging the use of decompilers, for I think it greatly limits your ability to learn. With that said, if somebody wants to use it, tell them to search the web for it. Far be it for me to stop somebody from jumping off a bridge ;)

This post is meant to be taken literally (inc. Linux users).

[REEF·]

TY Kirupa :beam:.

[Jeff Wheeler]

Why is this open? Didn't Kirupa just close it?