Request quick test on two pages

[snorris]

We're creating a product that allows someone without Flash knowledge or HTML knowledge to add Flash content to an existing web site, including context-sensitive help to html forms.

I have two quick test sites to which I have added content using our product that are designed to be viewed using Windows/IE. Other OS/Browser combinations should see a message saying "This web site contains enhanced content viewable using Internet Explorer." and then see the original underlying web site without the new content. Yes, I need to update the message to say "Windows/IE").

Please take a look at these two pages and tell me how things look - not from a design standpoint as much as do they seem to be working properly. Please tell me what OS/Browser combination(s) you used and the results.

Here are the links:

http://www.norrisoft.com/testing/showoff/targetPage.html (http://www.norrisoft.com/testing/showoff/targetPage.html)

The above page has one known bug in that it is a little difficult to get your cursor into the fields, but doable. You can tab into them. This seems to be related to a div layer above the fields - anyone know a solution to this?

Here's the second test page.

http://www.norrisoft.com/enhance/examples/dinoplanet/ (http://www.norrisoft.com/enhance/examples/dinoplanet/)

TIA,

Steve

[VOdka]

Nice Very nice...

[hybrid101]

cool! works in firefox/windows

[snorris]

Nice Very nice...

I assume you used Win/IE?

Thanks,

Steve

[snorris]

cool! works in firefox/windows

So you got the message box about enhanced content in IE, or you actually saw the content? You shoudn't be able to see the content in firefox/windows.

Thanks,

Steve

[ya3]

Big mistake... :(
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6668/no9yc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[simplistik]

Big mistake... :(
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6668/no9yc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Yep... and I didn't even waste my time to see what that content in IE was. If it's only viewable in IE it's not worth it... especially since you just obliterated the option for anyone who's not using a PC to see it.

[ya3]

Furthermore, what I can see in Firefox is some messy Times New Roman text and a form...

[snorris]

Furthermore, what I can see in Firefox is some messy Times New Roman text and a form...

The "messy Times New Roman text and a form" was a quick test page I put together to test the Flash content viewable in IE.

It is context-sensitive help which will help someone fill out a form. MOST non-computer savvy people use IE. So they are my first Target Audience.

My target audience is people trying to fill out complicated online forms dealing with VERY important and sometimes scary issues in their lives. They could be older people trying to fill out complicated medicaid forms, or tax, or legal forms.

I don't love or hate ANY browser. They are just tools to help me help my end-users. Some browsers are better than others.

When I solve the cross browser issues or the other browsers fix their bugs, I will get rid of the ugly pop-up.

What browser do YOU think most people, over the age of 30 are using to fill out complicated legal, medical, and financial forms?

So, I asked for a little help and you dumped on me for no good reason other than to make yourself feel superior because you have associated your self-worth with the which browser you prefer.

Like I said.. Nice...

[Stratification]

Yes, IE is a major player, there's no arguing there, but that was the wrong tack to take in responding to a valid critique. They could have been more wordy, true, but in this day and age, there's very little tolerance for solutions that don't scale to other platforms/browsers. I wasn't able to type anything into the form you displayed on the first page. The radio buttons worked, but the text fields did not. This was in both Firefox and in IE7. I dont' know that you'll take this the right way, but I'd suggest contacting/hiring a more polished graphics person if you are using this to demo technology you'd like to license. The current dinosaur demo shows some cool technology, but the page looks like something several years old. Some very interesting techniques, but the presentation needs polish.

[snorris]

Yes, IE is a major player, there's no arguing there, but that was the wrong tack to take in responding to a valid critique. They could have been more wordy, true, but in this day and age, there's very little tolerance for solutions that don't scale to other platforms/browsers. I wasn't able to type anything into the form you displayed on the first page. The radio buttons worked, but the text fields did not. This was in both Firefox and in IE7. I dont' know that you'll take this the right way, but I'd suggest contacting/hiring a more polished graphics person if you are using this to demo technology you'd like to license. The current dinosaur demo shows some cool technology, but the page looks like something several years old. Some very interesting techniques, but the presentation needs polish.

I couldn't agree more on the graphics. We're just now testing the technology - the reason for this post. There is no way to create a test lab that can match the real world in its diversity. So, I'm looking for a wide audience to make sure the technology is sound before moving into developing the marketing with the slick graphics you mentioned.

As far as the fields, please try again. It is a known bug - you have to deftly place your cursor at the top edge of a field to get into the field. You can also tab into the fields. If you STILL can't get into a field, please let me know as before along with which OS/Browser.

This bug has something to do with the <div> above the fields and I am trying to solve the problem.

Thanks for the constructive comments.

Steve

[Stratification]

Okay, went back and tried it again. Firefox presented no problems at all, I'm not sure what I was running into last time. In IE 7 (I'm on Windows XP if it matters) I could only get into the field at the very left. In a somewhat distressing side effect while I was testing this if I double clicked anywhere on the page except for the question mark the whole page was highlighted leaving only the question mark visible. This seemed to be true on the Dinosaur page to a lesser extent. Places without "enhanced content" when double clicked brought up the effect. As stated I'm in IE7, I'm not at all sure how it behaves in other versions of IE.

[chrisclick]

Opera gets the same message :(

[snorris]

Okay, went back and tried it again. Firefox presented no problems at all, I'm not sure what I was running into last time. In IE 7 (I'm on Windows XP if it matters) I could only get into the field at the very left. In a somewhat distressing side effect while I was testing this if I double clicked anywhere on the page except for the question mark the whole page was highlighted leaving only the question mark visible. This seemed to be true on the Dinosaur page to a lesser extent. Places without "enhanced content" when double clicked brought up the effect. As stated I'm in IE7, I'm not at all sure how it behaves in other versions of IE.

Should someone who doesn't have HDTV be pissed off when they see the little popup message on their TV that says, this broadcast available in HDTV? How is that any different than my popup saying enhanced content is availble in IE. Just like changing the channel to the HDTV channel, someone just needs to open IE.

Cross-browser isn't about being "cross-browser" it is about hating MS and IE. If Mozilla developed a cool technology far above anyone else's - say 3d graphics that appeared to float infront of the monitor (crazy example to make my point), NOBODY would be calling for cross-browser development and EVERYONE would be developing for Firefox only.

Cross-browser is developing for the lowest common denominator and the end-user looses.

[snorris]

Okay, went back and tried it again. Firefox presented no problems at all, I'm not sure what I was running into last time. In IE 7 (I'm on Windows XP if it matters) I could only get into the field at the very left. In a somewhat distressing side effect while I was testing this if I double clicked anywhere on the page except for the question mark the whole page was highlighted leaving only the question mark visible. This seemed to be true on the Dinosaur page to a lesser extent. Places without "enhanced content" when double clicked brought up the effect. As stated I'm in IE7, I'm not at all sure how it behaves in other versions of IE.

In the past YEAR nobody has run into this. I just duplicated it!! Thanks!! Better to find these bugs NOW! You are what this request for help is all about. I'll see if I can fix the bug!!

Thank YOU!!

[Stratification]

I'd suggest dropping the antagonistic attitude about cross-browser. I've refrained from pointing it out, but since this is a Flash heavy forum, why not. Everything you're doing on these pages can be done in Flash. There may be other reasons not to do it, but that would provide a solution that worked cross-browser, cross-platform. Cross-browser developing is in place because companies find it bad business to turn customers away at the door.

EDIT: I'll expand on that a bit. If you're doing something that can't be done in another browser great. Just don't point it out to users of other browsers when the page still works fine for them. IE users get a little extra help, other users get a normal page without a strange pop-up and everyone is happy. It's been done the reverse direction on a number of sites with CSS that IE won't handle at all.

[snorris]

I'd suggest dropping the antagonistic attitude about cross-browser. I've refrained from pointing it out, but since this is a Flash heavy forum, why not. Everything you're doing on these pages can be done in Flash. There may be other reasons not to do it, but that would provide a solution that worked cross-browser, cross-platform. Cross-browser developing is in place because companies find it bad business to turn customers away at the door.

This is Flash overlayed ontop of .html pages. The product we're developing allows people who are not knowledgeable in Flash or .html to overlay Flash content on existing .html files/pages.

The Flash techniques and javascript we are using are currently not available cross-browser.

So, the purchasers of our product could be developers for corporate intranets standardized on IE, or the casual home user or small business, or anyone who doesn't mind displaying extra content to IE users that other browser users won't see. It is not unprecedented. Yahoo has done it in the past.

If I dump the "This web page contains enhanced content viewable in IE message," non-IE users will be non-the wiser when they visit my customer's sites. They just won't see the enhanced content, but the site as it always has been. No-harm, no foul. So, non-IE users aren't hurt, but IE users get a more robust experience.

If my customeres don't use my product and keep there plain .html sites cross-browser, nobody gets the enhanced experience. How is that any better? If I can't have HDTV, nobody should have an HDTV. That would be the mentality.

As far as toning down, I will as soon as someone can explain to me where I am wrong in my logic.

Thanks,

Steve

[snorris]

Great minds think alike... I'll dump the message.

Thanks.

[snorris]

To clarify, the Flash techniques we are using are AVAILABLE cross browser but are buggy outside of IE. For instance, if I display the enhanced content to Firefox users, they can SEE it but then can't click through to the underlying page.

[Stratification]

As far as toning down, I will as soon as someone can explain to me where I am wrong in my logic.


Steve, I'm glad I've been of some help. It sounds like you could have a good product on your hands here. These sort of statements are the one's I was referring to as far as toning it down:



...no good reason other than to make yourself feel superior because you have associated your self-worth with the which browser you prefer.




Cross-browser isn't about being "cross-browser" it is about hating MS and IE


And thanks for the clarification on what portions are not cross-browser friendly.