Good print design portals?

[Kristopher]

DISCLAIMER: I already checked the resource thread by lib and searched the forum.

Hello. I've been asked to get into more print-related work with my job, but there are a few things here and there that I need to brush up on / don't exactly know. So, does anyone have a good link to a print-related portal?


I'm looking for a site that will answer questions like the following:


- What's the best program to use for, say, a business card? Photoshop? Illustrator? In Design?

- What are approximate sizes for envelopes, etc.?

- How do I go about ordering different types of print designs that are out of the ordinary (to see what I mean, view image 2 on this portfolio page: http://www.pbdh.com/portfolio/adaptis/ )?



So, can anyone hook me up?

[DDD]

1. I actually use a combination of all three of those programs you mentioned.

2. there are a few different sizes for different uses. You could grab a ruler and check the sizes.

3. You need to research printers in your area. And bring in proofs or comps. That is actually up to the capabilities of your printer. And that is called die-cutting when you round the corners. There is a few good books on this subject but the titles escape me at this point.

[Kristopher]

Cool. Thanks 3D. But do you of any good portals like Kirupa > Flash and Stylegala > Web Standards only in print?

[Kristopher]

Ok see here's my main problem, maybe you can help me DDD, or simplistik can come on and set me straight like he always does. I haven't had the chance to take a good print-related class at my college yet. I've been mostly CompSci, Digital Design, and Marketing to this point. So I don't know the answers to these simple problems:


My main thing is that with all the print things I've created in the last year, none seem to have really good quality when they are printed, except my business cards. But all my letterheads, envelopes, and ad spaces seem to have colors that don't match what I had on the screen. Most importantly, it seems like my fonts are just poopy - very blurry and not crips. I have a feeling it's because I only use Photoshop, even for things like letterheads (which I know is probably wrong). I don't know what programs to use/what to do however to make things nice with excellent quality.

[paddy.]

I got a short but interesting introductory lesson on print work from the guys at a design studio I've been going to do work experience with. They do alot of print work so they know their stuff.

The reason your colours are coming out differently in print than you see them on your screen is probably due to two things.

1. Do you use Pantone colours when designing print work? If not then you will almost certainly end up with different colours in reality than on screen.

2. Is your monitor correctly colour calibrated? If not then, again, you will end up with different colours in the final printed piece than you had on screen.

The font problem is most likely to do with PS. For print work you should attempt to stay away from Photoshop as much as possible. Stick to Illustrator, Freehand, InDesign and the industry standard Quark Xpress, especially for your text.

Useful links:
www.pantone.com (http://www.pantone.com)
www.theprintguide.com (http://www.theprintguide.com)
www.professorprint.com/designforprint.html (http://www.professorprint.com/designforprint.html)
"Designing For Print" by Charles Conover (http://print.google.co.uk/print?id=CpxNyxT7voMC&dq=designing+for+print&oi=print&pg=PP7&sig=K4b18CJn1M7CIYN98bj-R5mQi5Y&prev=http://www.google.co.uk/search%3Fhs%3D35x%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client% 3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla%253Aen-GB%253Aofficial%26q%3Ddesigning%2Bfor%2Bprint%26bt nG%3DSearch%26meta%3D)

[Kristopher]

Thanks Paddy Duke!

[Cello]

For business cards, letterheads, etc I will always use QuarkXpress. Yes, it's expensive - but it is the de facto standard for the print industry; almost all newspapers and magazines are produced using Quark.

Photoshop is great for photos (as you might expect :) ), however it is best to import your image into a layout tool like Quark (or Adobe's InDesign). Make sure the resolution of the file supports print quality - ie not 72dpi (screen resolution) - should never be less than 600dpi, which means BIG PS files! Make sure you've got a big hard drive and lots of RAM!

Colour control is also better in Quark as there are many Pantonre pallettes included in the package. This can help you save money - a colour photograph will require a four-colour process (sometimes 6) to print. However, by making your PS image a monotone using a pantone shade of blue for example - then in Quark import this image and use text that are percentage 'tints' of the original colour means that you only pay for a one-colour print process.

Summary - you need a specialist tool for each of the individual elements of print design - don't try and make one tool do everything - ie:

1. Use Photoshop for photos
2. Use Illustrator for vector illustration
3. Use Quark or InDesign to layout the images and text in whatever document you're creating

Hope this helps a little :)

[DDD]

Also be sure to ask your printer what are his pre-requisites. These vary from printer to printer. This one printer I used one time got all pissy about my bleed area being bigger than 1/8 of an inch. Also Try not to use photoshop for the last stop in print items. Especially with text. Compose the layout in ILL or ID.

[simplistik]

Stick to Illustrator, Freehand,....


Compose the layout in ILL....
Actually I recommend not to use Ill for layout at all. While it can do that, it's inefficent, takes up more memory, load times are horrible and isn't meant for page layout, unless you're doin something like a 1 page flyer (even then I don't). Stick w/ ID, and Quark, and import objects into one of them.

Personally I recommend ID, but Quark is good as well, the only problem w/ Quark is that their support is absolutely horrible, and their updates take about 1hr to update the program, UI is clunky and the shortcut keys don't work well :td:

One thing that ID doesn't have that Quark does (by default) is if you have lots of images it can pull tons of images into specified boxes, and you can mass move and adjust into the image boxes. Which is an advantage w/ Quark. However, w/ a lot of AS or JS you can get ID to do it too :D ;)
I do like 200+ page catalogs and that's an important feature they left out, so we had to write script for it all, and the way we wrote it is more efficent and Quark's.

[paddy.]

Actually I recommend not to use Ill for layout at all.

I didn't mean to use AI or FH for layout, but when creating graphics, vector are easier for print work since they can be resized etc.

I would definately recommend Quark or ID for layout tho. ;)

[DDD]

yea load times in Ill can lead to suicide, but it works I have done it before. But for massive things yea ID....I havent used Quark since Uni. Maybe I should dig up a copy and get re-aquainted, not even sure what verison they are on these days.

[simplistik]

I didn't mean to use AI or FH for layout, but when creating graphics, vector are easier for print work since they can be resized etc.

I would definately recommend Quark or ID for layout tho. ;)
Oh really? So if I want a picture of the Mona Lisa I should create it in vector? or should I import 300 - 350 dpi rasterized image? If it's a rasterized image the quality is gonna suck or make it harder for print? If it's vector those thousands of points are gonna translate better and render better in print?

not even sure what verison they are on these days.6.5 and unfortunately they are thinking of creating a 7 :P they should just bow before ID's superiority and customization/scripting capabilities :D

[paddy.]

Oh really? So if I want a picture of the Mona Lisa I should create it in vector? or should I import 300 - 350 dpi rasterized image? If it's a rasterized image the quality is gonna suck or make it harder for print? If it's vector those thousands of points are gonna translate better and render better in print?

Don't be an a-hole Simp, you know what I mean. :P

[dru_nasty]

Print work is by far a completely different animal than web.
Number one thing is communicating with your printer and finding out their needs and also their capabilities. The top 3 heavy hitters for page layout are Indesign, QuarkXpress, and Pagemaker. Indesign is superior by far. Trust me, I use these progs all day. Like said before, import all your elements into one of these layout programs. You got photos, you tweek them in photoshop, save them as tif's and place in a layout prog. (If using Indesign, it will place native psd files w/transparency) DPI for photos depends on what line screen the house is printing at.
Rule of thumb is doubling whatever line screen they print at. (Most printers print around 130-150 so 300 dpi is plenty. 600 is a pointless huge file unless your printer is at a 300 line screen which is rare. Vector graphics, use Freehand or Illustrator of course. Save that artwork as an eps then place in a layout prog. (Indesign will also place native .AI files)
4 Color printing (CMYK) is completely different than spot colors (Pantone).
Photoshops spot channel support is poor, so avoid using it for separations. Instead use Illustrator or Freehand. Then import that artwork into the layout prog.
Always set all type in a layout program.

[DDD]

Oh and always ask your printer to print a proof or 2 or 3. There are some really crappy printers out there *cough* kinkos *cough*. Worst thing is have 1000 crappy cards printed. I am lucky I have a real good printer around the corner from my house. That ships and gives me a discount for repeat biz.

[von_dragon]

Dammit I can't find that thread jaking picture. Now back to buisness I think he might have been looking for helpful print sites! Not an arguing bunch of... of...

btw I dont know any sites that would be useful to you Kris.

[Kristopher]

LOL @ Von.


Btw, thanks for all the great input DDD, sim, dru, and paddy. It actually helped quite a bit.

[cmart]

BUY an eye one display calibration kit from gretag macbeth. Runs around $200 US. Best purchase I've made for web and print...now i'm saving for ****&^#$ pantone swatches. Damn expensive.

[dru_nasty]

Maybe Kirupa could use a tut on some basics of prepress.
I get some time I'll put it together.

[Kristopher]

yeah that'd be a great idea.

[simplistik]

Dammit I can't find that thread jaking picture. Now back to buisness I think he might have been looking for helpful print sites! Not an arguing bunch of... of...

btw I dont know any sites that would be useful to you Kris.
LoL... it's hard to find one, and that's why no one posted it. But our experience is just as good as any site :D


Don't be an a-hole Simp, you know what I mean.

:P :krazy:

[Ryall]

Get a book of pantone swatches... then only use pantone palettes in your designs and your color will then ALWAYS be spot on, even if your monitor isnt calibrated... but I'd still recomend you purchase some calibration hard/software.

I dont know of any portals, but ckeck out some books... there are a lot of great books out there that cover any print related subject.

Also a HUGE thing as mentioned is to find a good COMMERCIAL print shop... sit down with your printer and ask questions. Before you begin a project sit down with your printer tell him your ideas, what stocks, finishes colors and graphics your looking for and let him inform you on how he can best acheive what you want - as in...
"if you do this portion in IL it would look best... this graphic would be best at xxx dpi, etc..."

Peace