occupation: web designer/developer [Archive]

RenaissanceGirl

March 26th, 2003, 03:26 PM

If you're question is referring to what kind of skills or assets are typically required of this job, simply do a search on Monster.com to find out what employers generally look for.

A portfolio or site helps a lot but it's not entirely necessary. After that, you apply for it just like you would for any other job - you contact the company about an opening, send them your cover letter/resume... etc...

eyeinfinitude

March 26th, 2003, 03:31 PM

Well a lot of companies like Churchhill, the one Kit works for, have their own in house designer which creates and maintain their website.

You have to keep in mind that once a website is created, it needs someone to update and maintain it, so instead of contacting a new designer for this each time, they hire someone to be around the office and do the updates.

There are also design studios like 2advanced and Who'sWe which consist of a team of designers and programmers working together to develope web applications.

So being a web designer isn't so bad, I've recently left the print industry to do freelance web designing and it's not too bad. I will eventually try to get into a studio like 2advanced once I gain more experience.

hojo

March 26th, 2003, 03:37 PM

yeah, i know about them having to update and everything, thats what i was wondering how to get a job in. i've looked on monster.com and the newspaper and things like that, was just curious as to if there was a certain site that was specifically for it or anything.

thats really cool eg, g'luck to you on that :)

eyeinfinitude

March 26th, 2003, 03:42 PM

Well if you're really interested then do what Rengirl stated, setup your portfolio site.

Ever since I had my portfolio site up, people contact me instead of me contacting them for work.

Also keep in mind that it won't happen over night and you will have to promote your site for atleast a few months before people actually know it exists.

Also don't rely on your site too much, continue your search on monster.com and other job sites. Keep your options open and be persistent. I'm sure you'll find a job, good luck. :P

lostinbeta

March 26th, 2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by electrongeek
I will eventually try to get into a studio like 2advanced once I gain more experience.

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! No offence EG, your skills are great and all, but 2A is WAY too strict with who they let in. I think you have to be a robot to be able to do what they want.... this is a quote from Bit-101 a long time ago when 2A was looking to hire. Their expectations are rediculously high, and you are requires to meet ALL of them to even be CONSIDERED for a job there.

Position: Web Developer

At 2Advanced Studios, we have made it our mission to consistently challenge the ordinary. We're seeking to grow our small team with the addition of an experienced Web Developer who, with superior technical training and comprehensive knowledge of multiple programming languages, will be primarily responsible for developing client solutions from conception to delivery.

Skillset Required:

We are seeking an individual with exception programming skills in Macromedia Flash MX (ActionScripting), Microsoft Visual Studio (C#, C++ and Visual Basic), PHP, Java, Javascript, Macromedia ColdFusion, Perl, and MivaScript. Experience with the following advanced web technologies is critical; JSP, EJB, JDBC, SOAP, WAP, SGML, XML, XSL/XSLT, CSS, DHTML and WML. Database design and normalization for the web with Microsoft SQL Server, Oracle 9i, MySQL, PostgreSQL and Borland InterBase is a must. Position also requires a minimum of a BS or BA in a related field or equivalent industry work experience. HTML, with Macromedia Dreamweaver, Adobe PhotoShop, Erain Swift3D, Macromedia Flash MX, Adobe Illustrator and Macromedia Freehand is a must. Candidate must meet ALL of the above criteria for consideration. Salary commensurate depending upon experience. Please submit your resume by e-mail ONLY to [removed]. NO CALLS PLEASE.

So I what I propose you do instead, is create a mega design company to RIVAL 2A, then kick their arse ;) ;) It could work.

SureShot

March 26th, 2003, 03:50 PM

holy crap man. That's crazy.

I work as a full time Web Developer/Graphic Designer sort of like Kit. I work for a company that needs things done all the time so instead of hiring people on a freelance basis they decided to hire a designer. I do both print and Web so I get the best of both worlds :)

mdipi

March 26th, 2003, 03:52 PM

2a2! hehehe! lol. thats rediculuse...if you can do something like that you deserve to be on Mt. Olympus. How much you want to bet Eric Jordan can't do half that? but this thread is helping me too.

eyeinfinitude

March 26th, 2003, 03:54 PM

LOL thanks lost, once again you find a way to boost my confidence....you jerk. :P

But seriously though, I know that their expectations are high, I've tried to do a internship there, but was turned down since I didn't have a Bachelor's degree.

Also keep in mind that when companies post their requirements, it's more of what they would like to have in a new employee, but most of the time they'll hire someone with almost all of those requirements. I know this because I've taken a business class and we talked to a few human resources departments of companies.

lostinbeta

March 26th, 2003, 03:58 PM

EG: I better of boosted your confidence, I said you should create a company that would rival 2A, because you're that good!

And in their requirements they state in caps them you must meet ALL the requirements to be considered. It is towards the end. I don't think requirements usually say that, but I could be wrong.

grimdeath

March 26th, 2003, 03:58 PM

its ridiculous the things they ask for at 2a i personally if i knew all they are asking for i would make my own company not try to get a job witht hem its stupid i mean really some of us dont know half of what their requirements and we have jobs as freelancers or have our own clients why?? becaue not everyone can afford a 2a website thats why

Grim

eyeinfinitude

March 26th, 2003, 04:01 PM

Well of course they have to set their requirements high, they're 2A, they have a reputation to maintain, but in reality, that list of requirements is insane.

I'm sure there are people who have all those skills, but to find one is rare. They're asking for someone who is a combination of Senocular and Edwin. I do NOT know of anyone who is that good. :P

UNFLUX

March 26th, 2003, 04:05 PM

UNFLUX is on the up-and-up, you know. ;)

eyeinfinitude

March 26th, 2003, 04:07 PM

Unflux who? :P stop spamming! :P

So how much did it cost to start your studio? Have you set up your business plan and break even analysis yet? =)

mdipi

March 26th, 2003, 04:09 PM

when i was talking to eric jordan yesterday...

lol i gotta go with EG cause i mean. its like, whoa! they got specialty ppl, that is just what they would like. but if you have extensive knowlage in more than one area you still got a shot, this looks like a Director or Manager's position to me. its not you5r average joe spot.

UNFLUX

March 26th, 2003, 04:11 PM

After these 3 jobs in progress, everything else is profit. =)

The biggest cost for this was time. Being patient is the key IMO.

You aren't going to get $10k per project right away. Taking my
time and building the clients up was my main goal, then the price
seems to take care of itself.

I started UNFLUX almost a year ago, and now I'm finally getting
to charge what I want. 2a is my goal, in terms of business.
Where they are, is where I want to be in 2 yrs tops.

I'm sure that will go up too tho, if I'm lucky. =)

eyeinfinitude

March 26th, 2003, 04:17 PM

Well good luck to you Unflux, as for me, I still have a long way to go.

I know Eric Jordan has been in the game for a long time starting out at Design Insites.

I hope I can follow his same footsteps and be as successful. =)

andr.in

March 26th, 2003, 04:20 PM

well that kinda job is just like a dream come true!

hojo

March 26th, 2003, 04:26 PM

you and me both EG :)

mdipi

March 26th, 2003, 04:31 PM

i dont know if i want to stay being this. i am not even outta high school yet. hell i am not even IN high school yet, i want to do something with Computers, like maybe an IT guy but i dont know if its in Web exactly...

eyeinfinitude

March 26th, 2003, 04:36 PM

An IT guy is more towards computer science and hardware which is a lot of money as well. =)

My uncle is an system analysis and he makes a pretty penny. :P

lava

March 26th, 2003, 04:37 PM

haha eg... you could join me... I'm starting my own company right now with two other people. I've been working on the company site, but I just realized that it sucks and that I need to do a much better one.

Anyways, here's my two cents. I do work at the Department of Labor as a web developer. I actually work for a contractor for DOL... I just found out that my boss got canned, and I was pretty much staying at my job because I liked my boss. So now there's nothing holding me back from finding a better paying job.

I didn't find my job through monster.com or the newspaper. Many of these companies hire people that are referenced to them. In my case, my boss graduated from MIT, and so I met her through the alumni website, and she got the company to hire me. So I think the best thing you can do to find a web developer job is to get connections. That's what I'm planning to do to find my next job.

Now I'm also trying to start a web development company. And again, I don't think you need to have a portfolio to get started on this. I still have to get my small business licence, and I haven't even finished the company's website or advertised, but I have a couple of potential clients already. How? Connections. The two other people with whom I'm doing this with already knew people who needed websites. So after I'm done with the company's site, I have 3 jobs lined up.

So I'd say that the best thing you can do right now is not sit on your butt wondering what to do. Of course, seek help in forums like this, but take a chance, even if you don't have a portfolio or anything. Don't just wait for the opportunity to come to you.

hojo

March 26th, 2003, 05:53 PM

sounds good, thanks everyone :)

Kitiara

March 27th, 2003, 04:07 AM

The thing is, over here (to my knowledge anyway) there are more full time positions for web designers/developers than contract and freelance work. :!:

If you look on English web sites like www.totaljobs.co.uk you'll find lots of them. As EG has already said, most big companies in England don't hire contractors. As an example, Churchill (who I work for) has an E-Commerce department who look after all the groups websites. So not only is there www.churchill.com but also www.nig-uk.com, www.csgclaims.com, www.edevitt.co.uk there's loads. We have several project managers who deal with the admin side, IT people who sort out make lives, and one designer and developer (me) who designs new things and builds them. We've got a development centre out in India too for building pages.

Basically my job is to keep an eye on current pages, make changes when they need them, design and build new sites, redesign old ones and research new technologies.

I like it. It's more secure than freelancing, and there's the advantage of a regular income. Plus after a few years you can start asking for shedloads of money. :)

RelandR

March 27th, 2003, 04:33 AM

*shedloads* ... love your terminology... =) :!:

Just my 2c worth re: 2advanced:::
...very few are going to a)be able to justify 'their' prices b)care to be represented by the technoSpace-age style that is typical to them...
Far too many businesses I think find the styles at 2advanced way too far out for their tastes....they appeal more to designers than your average *Joe-bussinessMan*

there is a whole world of *keep it for the normal people* thinking to keep a developer/designer plenty busy styling in a *newAge* but not too far out manner

Simplicity is still popular

Kitiara

March 27th, 2003, 04:42 AM

It's a great phrase, that. I love it. "Shedloads". :)

I've just gone through that 2Advanced list to see what I could do...

Skillset Required:

We are seeking an individual with exception programming skills in Macromedia Flash MX (ActionScripting), Microsoft Visual Studio (C#, C++ and Visual Basic), PHP, Java, Javascript, Macromedia ColdFusion, Perl, and MivaScript. Experience with the following advanced web technologies is critical; JSP, EJB, JDBC, SOAP, WAP, SGML, XML, XSL/XSLT, CSS, DHTML and WML. Database design and normalization for the web with Microsoft SQL Server, Oracle 9i, MySQL, PostgreSQL and Borland InterBase is a must. Position also requires a minimum of a BS or BA in a related field or equivalent industry work experience. HTML, with Macromedia Dreamweaver, Adobe PhotoShop, Erain Swift3D, Macromedia Flash MX, Adobe Illustrator and Macromedia Freehand is a must. Candidate must meet ALL of the above criteria for consideration. Salary commensurate depending upon experience. Please submit your resume by e-mail ONLY to [removed]. NO CALLS PLEASE.

Long way to go, I think. :)

AnOraK

March 27th, 2003, 04:52 AM

I used to work with some of the bigger names in the Scottish design scene full time...

Unfortunately, it is now more viable for studios to employ a freelancer to come in and take a brief and go and complete a particular job rather than pay someone full time to sit at a desk...

i.e. cheaper option (http://www.greybardesign.com)

Another bad thing is that sometimes when you go to interviews you can meet ppl who have their feet firmly under the table and don't like the idea of someone new snapping at their heels in their bid to climb the ladder

I know some seriously talented designers who bcoz of this situation are walking about trying to get work...and ultimately when the projects arrive they are all competing against each other....

Through working with certain people I have managed to aquire some clients, one of them for me is a big one...which is nice...

The best thing to do is have a portfolio of your work that reflects not only your skillset, but the range of work that you can offer through your designs...

I have to agree with Kit when she says that working fulltime is a more secure option...getting paid on a monthly basis would be a dream...

What you actually find is that if you are doing the freelance/small company route you have to be an individual of many talents....

You have to be not only creative and technical, but you have to do the face to face meetings with clients, admin, accounts, continual marketing and getting your name out there...

A good start is always to get everything in writing whenever you undertake a project that way you are covering your a**

Get a terms and conditions doc drawn up, make sure that your payment details are perfectly clear...clients do NOT always pay you when they are meant to...barstewards!!!

Freelancing has its good points too though but the main thing to remember if you are going down this route is that it is all down to you....

Talent is nothing without effort...

Effort takes time and dedication...

Hopefully through your dedication your talent will shine through....

Good luck with whatever route you choose...

And good luck to you EG with 2A....I'm sure you will be just as successful with whatever u do...

Marz

March 27th, 2003, 07:11 AM

Man.. Everyone forgets the lil guy.. aka playamarz... Do I have to create some vivid 3d game to gte you guys **** attention or something? *lmao*

We are seeking an individual with exception programming skills in Macromedia Flash MX (ActionScripting), Microsoft Visual Studio (C#, C++ and Visual Basic), PHP, Java, Javascript, Macromedia ColdFusion, Perl, and MivaScript. Experience with the following advanced web technologies is critical; JSP, EJB, JDBC, SOAP, WAP, SGML, XML, XSL/XSLT, CSS, DHTML and WML. Database design and normalization for the web with Microsoft SQL Server, Oracle 9i, MySQL, PostgreSQL and Borland InterBase is a must. Position also requires a minimum of a BS or BA in a related field or equivalent industry work experience. HTML, with Macromedia Dreamweaver, Adobe PhotoShop, Erain Swift3D, Macromedia Flash MX, Adobe Illustrator and Macromedia Freehand is a must. Candidate must meet ALL of the above criteria for consideration. Salary commensurate depending upon experience. Please submit your resume by e-mail ONLY to [removed]. NO CALLS PLEASE.

I wouldn't even be allowed to step my presence in there... Kind-a sad too.. Cause I think I could come up with something "2advanced" for them...

Just because you know a language doesn't mean you "know" a language... Out of the above listed.. I've probably only mastered a couple.. I've dabbled in design with alot of them but only mastered a few of them.

To have mastered all of the above... You would have to be something more than human...

playamarz ~ :player:

AnOraK

March 27th, 2003, 07:13 AM

a 2advancedoid?

Marz

March 27th, 2003, 07:17 AM

Who me? Yeah right... I'm a dud :P

playamarz :player:

Kitiara

March 27th, 2003, 07:28 AM

Well, I'm pretty fluent in Pascal, COBOL, C, HTML, Java and JavaScript. Obviously Flash, and I've used the design programs too... But the rest I've only touched on.

I don't think a person exists who could ever have everything on that list.

Marz

March 27th, 2003, 07:31 AM

I'm good with Window's Programming, DirectX programming and a couple of other things.

I specialize in key Video game Devlopement Areas... Optimization of code.. Artificial Intelligence and stuff like that.. Pick a game and I could find a way to code it for you... Just gimme some art *lol*..

*sigh*... I wish god would have made me a designer as well as a coder :(

playamarz :player:

Kitiara

March 27th, 2003, 07:33 AM

I'm trying to be both and it's difficult. The pure coders think you can't code, and the designers think you can't design. Plus I'm a woman so all of them think I'm some kind of muppet. :sure:

I guess the easiest thing is to team up with someone who has the opposite skills. :)

Marz

March 27th, 2003, 07:36 AM

Yeah pretty much... Too bad I'm the only one of my kind around here... All the designers are about as good as I am.. And that's sad for designers... *lmao*...

As for coding.. I've talked to other coders around here and they are like.. I know,.. MySQL and PHP fluently... And I start listing mine off and they are like.. Umm.. Right.. FREAK..

:*( People are so cruel...

playamarz ~ :player:

Kitiara

March 27th, 2003, 07:38 AM

They're just jealous. :)

Just be thankful no-one's ever turned up to a meeting with you and gone "Oh sorry, I was expecting a man." :angry:

Marz

March 27th, 2003, 07:40 AM

Blah.. I need to move to DC or Baltimore ot Pittsburgh.> there we go.. No-one on hree is close to Pittsburgh *lmao*

playamarz

Ouch.. that would suck... But were you ever turned down from a job because the other person was charging $1 per site? The worst part about that is... This person was my best friend and he did it to screw me over... Was my best friend.

AnOraK

March 27th, 2003, 07:40 AM

totally agree with you kit...

"I guess the easiest thing is to team up with someone who has the opposite skills"

i do all of the design and actionscripting for our sites but the developer who works with me is fluent in the languages that are listed on the website

i have learned so much from him recently and we regularly upd8 various sites that are not on our portfolio section...in languages that are klingon 2 me...ha ha

it is good to feed off of someone else, and at the same time give something back...

all that kirupa.com stands for really...

it is very hard to walk both paths but if you can walk the middle it is good 4 u...

that way when you have to give time estim8s etc. at least you know what is reasonable and feasible...

and the plus side is your skillset can only develop 2

Kitiara

March 27th, 2003, 07:49 AM

But were you ever turned down from a job because the other person was charging $1 per site? Now that's just plain nasty. I'd be really rather hacked off with that. :angry:

Good points, both of you. It's a difficult job sometimes. There's so much out there, people expect a lot from you. :sure:

Cynegenica

March 27th, 2003, 07:55 AM

Ok departments looking for webdesigners, content management experts, etc etc whatever you want to call it.... are:

IT departments
Marketing Departments

You can find those in any corporate. Also look at places like Colleges, Charities etc. They wont pay fantastically well, but they have good training programmes to compensate.

Kitiara

March 27th, 2003, 07:57 AM

Yep... Our E-Commerce Department comes under 'Marketing'.

lava

March 27th, 2003, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by playamarz
Blah.. I need to move to DC or Baltimore ot Pittsburgh.> there we go.. No-one on hree is close to Pittsburgh *lmao*

playamarz

Ouch.. that would suck... But were you ever turned down from a job because the other person was charging $1 per site? The worst part about that is... This person was my best friend and he did it to screw me over... Was my best friend.

there's jobs in D.C???

I must look...

Marz

March 27th, 2003, 05:05 PM

Well right now I'm in Chambersburg.. Which like I've stated is about 2 hours away from all of those cities.. *lmao*..

I'm in a hick city.. :beam:

playamarz

UNFLUX

March 27th, 2003, 05:13 PM

hick state more like. ;)

lilynet

April 1st, 2003, 05:08 PM

From my experience of working tightly with programmers and designers follows the comment - a programmer cannot design as good as a designer and a designer cannot program as good as a programmer can !! One can't be perfect 100% in all of the listed by 2advanced. It takes two to tango - a designer and a programmer. That is what makes an excellent team that delivers work results of high quality in a timely manner.

And if you guys, want to work for 2a then don't be afraid to try and get yourself at the door. Just be the fastest and greatest at what you do. And you'll see your chances to be hired will be high.

lava

April 1st, 2003, 05:13 PM

I think one can be awesome at programming and design at the same time. It's just hard to do. I've seen TONS of personal sites that feature good design and very well done backends. But yeah, if you're starting out, pair yourself up with someone who's better at other things than you are. With my business I'm not doing that, and it's a huge mistake, but I just can't find anyone who's willing to make a commitment, and who I trust.

lilynet

April 1st, 2003, 05:22 PM

lavaboy,

do you consider yourself more of a programmer or designer?

lava

April 1st, 2003, 05:25 PM

I'm definitely a programmer. I spend most of my time in front of asp or actionscript code than on the flash stage or photoshop. I totally suck at design, cause I never plan out designs.

Hey, Hollywood... lotsa hijacked planes around there huh?

lilynet

April 1st, 2003, 05:34 PM

and I am more of a designer. I could be a decent programmer if I wanted to, but I tend to lean towards design more. It's fun, you do something different all the time, well unless client is a paint in the *** and you get stuck working on the same thing until they're happy.

What's with your business? Did you start something then failed?

P.S. Haven't heard of the hijacked planes, at least not today.

Cynegenica

April 1st, 2003, 05:35 PM

I actually agree with both.

You can be a great designer and a great programmer. However depending on the place you work depends whether you are able to do both. If you have little work coming in then I dont see why you couldn't or wouldnt' be offered the opportunity to do both.

However I am a project manager and I manage the creation of major corporate sites. I am a designer, a programmer and a project manager, so I can do all three. But my job in this place is PM.

When I schedule the resources we have available into my plan often there is no leeway for the designer/programmer to do both. I may have 3 or 4 major projects going at once all competing for the individual skills at same or different times of their respective project life cycles.

That means that my resources are not often able to do both roles for the simple fact that they are too busy. Hence often I will ensure I have a specialist of each rather than a single person doing both.

Designing if done right (and in my experience) is a lot more than the look and feel. Sometimes to get it right you may need a BA to do some work. So there is another specialist role that I have to ensure I have the resource time for.

If you work in a small web design studio (and I have in the past) it is often the case you need to be jack of all trades. As you go to the corporates they can afford more staff and hence specialists. But there is obviously good reasons why they need them.

Depending on the job requirements, the number of jobs you have, and the time each resource has to spare, depends on whether or not you get to have your cake and eat it.

:)

lava

April 1st, 2003, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by lilynet
and I am more of a designer. I could be a decent programmer if I wanted to, but I tend to lean towards design more. It's fun, you do something different all the time, well unless client is a paint in the *** and you get stuck working on the same thing until they're happy.

What's with your business? Did you start something then failed?

P.S. Haven't heard of the hijacked planes, at least not today.

I'm barely starting. I already have 3 clients lined up, but I'm working on processes, basically - how to work with the client, taxes, invoices, keeping track of time, business licence, etc. It's a lot harder than I thought. It's ok to be a web designer and do little jobs here and there, but if you're going to go after big clients, especially in the D.C. area, I need legitimacy. At my jop, I almost always work on backend stuff, and so I don't have that much time to do visual stuff. I'm looking for another job that will let me focus on that.

Anyways, yeah, some cuban guy hijacked a plane from Cuba and flew it into Miami. It's the SECOND time that happens in two weeks too... I'm so freaking angry about that. There's the freaking patriot act, money's being taken out of the education budget to fund homeland security, and things like this still happen. Imagine some Al Qaeda guy ends up in Cuba...

c!rYx

April 1st, 2003, 06:06 PM

@AnOraK
I think you are right, and that is why I searched for a pretty good programer and I found one. He is also a little bit into design.
So right now I'm pretty happy.
What I really hate, when coder have no clue of nice sites... ;p

Kitiara

April 2nd, 2003, 04:04 AM

If you can appreciate the intricacies of both, then that's very handy. I've seen some agency designers come up with stuf that looks beautiful, but since they don't program, they have no idea of just how awkward their fantastic design would be to implement...

Marz

April 2nd, 2003, 04:20 AM

Oh yeah.. I know how that one can be Kit..

I wanna design a game that does this and this and this and performs like this and this and does all this...

Gimme $200,000 and I'll give you a game that can do half of what you want at the speed you want :)

*lol*... :) It's a hard world to live in both areas... Being a designer you need to know color theory, design logic, programs for exactly that (photoshop, illustrator, flash.. etc etc) and being a programmer you need to know everything about the languages you are studying... PHP, ASP, Flash Actionscript, C++... One uses your right side of the brain and the other uses your left side....

playamarz :player: