'Opinions' aren't always right.

[Aislin]

I've seen a lot of flaming go on in my life. Yep. And lots is caused by difference in opinion. Often people say they're not wrong because 'they can have their own opinion, and it's always right for them.'

Something along those lines, you know you've seen it before.

Well, I thought I'd bring it up, the opinions topic.

This is an email Gabriel of www.Penny-Arcade.com fame received during a 'debate' of sorts.

<i>I took a "History of Film" class once and the professor started out by saying that he didn't want to hear that we didn't like any of the movies he was going to show. "These movies are all great," he said. "If you don't like them, you are wrong. Quite frankly, if you think that the 'Mona Lisa' is a bad painting, it says more about you than it does about Da Vinci's skill as a painter." </i>

That professor is quite the dude(tte), I love that quote.

Anyways, keep that in mind.

[Aislin]

Another fantastic little statement Gabe came up with by himself.

<i>I am sick of hippies trying to tell me that someone's Opinion can't be wrong because it's thier OPINION. That's bull****, plenty of Opinions are wrong. Hey, it's my OPINION that dogs have eight legs and make a sound like a car horn every time they take a piss. If I told you that, would you say, "Okay Gabe I respect your opinion, maybe they do have eight legs." or would you call me an idiot? Yeah, that's what I thought. You are welcome to have your opinion that Link looks like *** but I am letting you know that the character designs are technically very well done. You can still not like them but that does not mean that they aren't technically well executed and artistically sound.</i>

edit:
The reference to 'Link' is to the new Zelda game, Wind Waker, which is 'cell shaded' (to make it look like a cartoon.) The change in the way this game was made caused some unhappy responses from people who didn't like the look.

[NaliWarCow]

I agree and disagree with that statement. If something is art, it might speak to one person, and not speak to someone else. Yet, I believe that some people who disagree with some of my opinions should either A). change their opinions B). be slapped silly with trouts.

[Aislin]

...I'll take a little from column A, and a little from column B.
:P :P :P

[Guig0]

Aislim, don´t be so limited...

of course everyone is entitled to 'his' opinion, as long this person has some base of information that built his opinion.

dogs having eight legs and making a sound like a car horn every time they take a piss is a crazy statement, coz its a fact that they don´t, facts and opnions don´t clash, they get along pretty well.

when someone say that he never ate sushi coz he doesn´t like, he is saying 'hey, i´m an idiot. i can´t tell what is good and what is bad, so don´t even try it', but if someone eat sushi and say 'i don´t like sushi coz raw fish has a bad taste', this person is saying that in his taste opinion sushi is bad. totally different things. and if you can´t see the difference...

you brought this up, obviously, coz you´re upset with the discussion on this war. i´m too.
but i can deal with opinions different than mine, the worst that i can go in such a discussion is to think, rarely to state, that the other person isn´t well informed. but to deny opinions...

wise up dude! i know you´re better than this.

[gimmesomemore!!]

of course they are not always right! they are OPINIONS!! i.e. assumtions, hyposthis.

[lava]

Aislin... for some reason, I don't agree with your post, and I want to smack you. But when I think about it, I can't really think of what I disagree with. So here's a beer... *coors light*

[RelandR]

I will never eat Sushi because I don't think I'll like it because the very Idea of eating raw fish makes my skin crawl

MyOpinion:: SushiSux...but that's just my opinion =)

[Guig0]

LOL reland... it was just an example :P :P

ok..bad example... :P :P

[RelandR]

=) it's Ok Guig ... I know ya Luv me ...

I may not be a practicing Idiot - but I do have Idiot tendencies :!:

;)

[Marz]

d00d.. Wow.. That's all wrong.. *lmao*...

Of course people have their own opinions but like stated above.. There is a difference between Opinions, Facts and Lies.

Opinions are generalized thoughts and feelings for certain things. It allows someone to express their thoughts on certain things. Saying that a dog has 8 legs is about as perpostruous as me saying meatballs are made out of rocks. If I were to say a statement like that it would be me "lying" not me expressing my "opinions".

My opinion would be this.. I think guig0 is an excellent guy who has great designer talent.. A lie would be me saying that guig0 is an American and he actual lives in Canada. And the truth would be that guig0 lives in Brazil..

Notice the difference between all of them? The opinion states more feelings than anything else. I don't state my feelings in the lie and I don't state my feelings in the truth. Now.. My feelings might be true to some people but it might be false to others... That's what makes opinions.. opinions.

I was very unhappy with the way the new zelda was cell-shaded... Yeah it might not change the game play but I just can't get in these new cell-shaded games like I can everything else. I have tried the new Wild Arms game... And it's cell shadedness.. I couldn't get in as good I did like Final Fantasy 9.

Now.. That's my opinion right there.. It doesn't make it the "truth" in anyone's eyes but my own.

http://www.fantom-stranger.com/~mentalconcepts/files/playamarz.gif ~ playamarz

[reverendflash]

marz, although long winded (who do you think you are, David?), is correct:

o·pin·ion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-pnyn)
n.
A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin opni, opnin-, from opnr, to think.]
Synonyms: opinion, view, sentiment, feeling, belief, conviction, persuasion
These nouns signify something a person believes or accepts as being sound or true. Opinion is applicable to a judgment based on grounds insufficient to rule out the possibility of dispute: “A little group of willful men, representing no opinion but their own, have rendered the great Government of the United States helpless and contemptible” (Woodrow Wilson). View stresses individuality of outlook: “My view is... that freedom of speech means that you shall not do something to people either for the views they have or the views they express” (Hugo L. Black). Sentiment and especially feeling stress the role of emotion as a determinant: “If men are to be precluded from offering their sentiments on a matter which may involve the most serious and alarming consequences... reason is of no use to us” (George Washington). “There needs protection... against the tyranny of the prevailing opinion and feeling” (John Stuart Mill). A belief is a conclusion to which one subscribes strongly: “Our belief in any particular natural law cannot have a safer basis than our unsuccessful critical attempts to refute it” (Karl Popper). Conviction is belief that excludes doubt: “the editor's own conviction of what, whether interesting or only important, is in the public interest” (Walter Lippmann). Persuasion applies to a confidently held opinion: “He had a strong persuasion that Likeman was wrong” (H.G. Wells).

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

[Marz]

:beam: There are times when I pull **** out of my head from obsecure places that I never knew existed :sigh:

http://www.fantom-stranger.com/~mentalconcepts/files/playamarz.gif ~ playamarz

[senocular]

All the opinions in this thread are WRONG :)



(including this one)

[reverendflash]

agitator!

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

[[Legoman]]

yeah man, opinions are cast about areas of contention, not about solid facts. Movies are art and art is subjective, so he can't just say people are wrong if they don't like them. With that in mind, concerning the Mona Lisa thing, of course your opinion about a piece of art says more about you than the artist. It's YOUR opinion, it doesn't influence or change the art or artist in any way.

[RelandR]

Elo~quently put Marz...

Ya know... I think there may even be a slightly *shaded point* in what Aislin was saying (whether he knows it or not), being that there are people that go ballistic when it comes to their opinion and how much weight it (should?) carry and how worthless they feel others' opinions are.
:!:

[pinx]

personally, and it's my opinion, but i don't think that the mona lisa is that great of a painting. that's not to say that da vinci wasn't a genious, cause he was.


and it makes me sad that most people go to the louvre to primarily see the mona lisa.

[upuaut]

good thread Aislin. And good posts from most.

The opinion on the validity of the War, is also a subjective thing. Proofs which lead each man to his opinion on the subject are different, and bias' seen in all of the general populous, colors the perception of each participant both viewed and whom he views.

The war is too subjective for any single individual to state. "you're incorrect in your opinion."

(short enough rev? :) )

[reverendflash]

If you write it, it will be read...

good to see you back...

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

[Aislin]

Yeah David, i missed you!

Anyways, please remember, that even though I agree with the statements in some cases, I didn't say those things.

Sometimes opinions are just as valid as facts, but on some things (like the professor's 'Mona Lisa') the statements are entirely correct.

So yes. A little from column A, a little from column B.

[lava]

well, here's my rule. Never listen to an opinion that's not supported by facts. After you've heard it, try to disprove it with all you can. If the opinion survives... then it's a pretty **** good opinon.

for example...

it's my opinion that dogs have 8 legs (no supporting facts, not even listening to that crap)
it's my opinion that dogs has 8 legs because here I have a picture of one particular dog that has 8 legs (where the hell did you get that dog??? and here I have 1000 pictures of dogs that have four legs... so you're wrong)

that's my process. That's why when people make inflamatory comments, or say stupid things, instead of getting mad and calling them idiots, I ask them where they get their information from. Then I proceed to systematically break down their argument, and show them their error in judgment.

So by my standards, if someone told me that the mona lisa is a butt ugly painting, I wouldn't even listen to the guy. But if someone told me that the mona lisa is a butt ugly painting because the standards of beauty have changed over the years, as proven by such and such facts, and because painting skills have evolved beyond what Leonardo DaVinci could have ever imagined, as shown by such and such painters... I'd certainly listen to him. At least he has supporting facts.

And I finally put my finger on what bothered me about aislin's original argument. And here it is. When you talk about matters such as movies or paintings, however widely accepted it is that such and such thing is good, it's still a subjective matter. Therefore, an opinion in these matters can never be proven right or wrong. If some idiot comes up to you in the street saying that the mona lisa is ugly, you can't ever prove him wrong. Nor can you ever prove yourself right in saying that the mona lisa is a beautiful painting. There's simply no scientific method to this.

There are matters in which you can prove an opinion wrong, since there exist well defined standards of right and wrong, like in talking about a war. (sidetrack here... I think a war CAN be proven to be beneficial or harmful by reducing it to the black and white facts. However, there are WAY too many facts to take into consideration, and most people think about the war at a level of abstraction which is not appropriate for debate.)
but there are topics which are extremely subjective, in which you can't state that someone's opinion is wrong. Paintings and movies are simply a bad example to use.

[Aislin]

David's so dreamy.