This makes me want to stick my finger down my throat

[info@rkirby.com]

The customer supplies teeshirts to women who are typical of the kind you saw on Golden Girls, you know 60+ young at heart. The teeshirts have names like rainbow seahorse, ballerina bear and the like. If that isn't bad enough she wants the site to be populated with the birds and bees (the non-porno kind). She supplied this artwork
http://www.rkirby.com/t4/art.jpg

and asked me add the bees and make it happen. So I put on dark sun glasses, dosed myself up on JD, took mind altering medication and came up with this.

http://www.rkirby.com/t4/

It is not quite finished yet. Two more menu items, links to be put in and some tidying up.

Does it make you want to barf too?

[unchew]

sorry but WTH. It isn't even "even" with the drawings. Some are copy-pasted (or look like) and others are made in flash or something... the colours look like chosen from the main MS Paint palette. Sry but I don't like it. How much are they paying you for this?

[GW02]

Yeah, but it fits the theme I guess.

The background could use some light gradient to break the monotony.

Some primitive animation on the birds and bees would help.

And change "Click any of the objects above" to "Click around!" or something cheesy like that. "objects" just sounds so out of place.

[info@rkirby.com]

sorry but WTH. It isn't even "even" with the drawings. Some are copy-pasted (or look like) and others are made in flash or something... the colours look like chosen from the main MS Paint palette. Sry but I don't like it. How much are they paying you for this?

Hmm, bit of miscommunication on my part. It did not have to be the image, the image was the customers idea of what the flowers should look like. The color pallete are pantone colors provided by the customer, they probably did originate from MS paint. Yes I did creat them in Flash, seemed pointless doing them in illustrator/freehand and importing them as vectors as Flash can do this kind of vector simply. How much are they paying. Well the site is going to be twelve pages so the end will be around $1,500. Nice eh?

[eilsoe]

1500$ :huh:

[info@rkirby.com]

Yeah, but it fits the theme I guess.

The background could use some light gradient to break the monotony.

Some primitive animation on the birds and bees would help.

And change "Click any of the objects above" to "Click around!" or something cheesy like that. "objects" just sounds so out of place.

The background has yet to be done, a light gradient is a good idea, when I get around to it. When you click on the birds and bees you should be seeing primitive animation. Do you? If you dont my AS is screwed.

I love the click around idea, changed that just now

[info@rkirby.com]

1500$ :huh:

I pray on rich, fat, Republican americans and eat the contents of their wallets. Feels good.

[unchew]

Hmm, bit of miscommunication on my part. It did not have to be the image, the image was the customers idea of what the flowers should look like. The color pallete are pantone colors provided by the customer, they probably did originate from MS paint. Yes I did creat them in Flash, seemed pointless doing them in illustrator/freehand and importing them as vectors as Flash can do this kind of vector simply. How much are they paying. Well the site is going to be twelve pages so the end will be around $1,500. Nice eh?

:twitch:

OMG 1,500... better give you some positive coments then: The costumer will be happy wit the style, just fix some details.

[info@rkirby.com]

:twitch:

OMG 1,500... better give you some positive coments then: The costumer will be happy wit the style, just fix some details.

Oooh, cool comment. Make note to myself, must post positive coment on unchews next posting.

[saracenvii]

The style, butterflys, (humming?)bird and flowers all goes together. The only gripe for me is the bee. It doesnt have the same artistic style as the rest.

[.inspire]

Make your site a bit professional. Simple can be nice at times too.

(-:

[MetteBB]

You are supposed to be the professional here, right? The customer might want something specific, but if you think it is as bad as you make it out to be shouldn't you try and convince the PAYING customer that her design is bad?
Come up with nicer illustrations and a nicer overall look and present it to the clien´t and show her that you know what you are doing... Tweak her idea into someting professional looking and earn those 1500 bucks

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I personally would not take that amount of money to create a website that looks like it is aimed at children when in fact it is for 60 year old women...

/mette

[frozenRage]

i have to agree with mette. its 'nice' but doesn't seem, well, 'pro' enough to want to put your name to it.

[imported_ramie]

you should be done for fraud charging 1500 for that :to:

[Pomme_]

I don't agree. 1500 bucks is average for a 12-page site, considering you're not only doing the executive work, but also the creative work... (hehe, creative work, rightio)

I find the site real ugly (...), but I'm sure it fits the clientele. No kidding. You can be 60 and young at heart, it doesn't make you any better at appreciating design, imo. It's so cheesy, I'm sure the nice old lady next door will love it. I wouldn't put it in my folio if I were you though.

[imported_ramie]

yea was just kidding about, people will pay for anything in my experience and if they want to pay it let them :), good flash people inside the business are notoriously hard to impress, its the exact opposite for clients........ flash is a deal maker

yea 1500 is a very fair price (dollars) we'd ask for 1500 in british pounds here, lol

[Tommy_S]

I simply don't like it and my price for that - 20$. :hat:

[imported_ramie]

in its current state yep, but a 12 page site with flash its a very fair price

[mprzybylski]

rofl, i laughed when i read your first sentence pomme.

anyway, i'd have to agree with him. i've done some sites where i didn't agree with the artwork, and after countless efforts to try and change it to something that i thought was good design, it was a no go so i just bit my tongue and did it (even though i HATE, ABSOLUTELY HATE working on stuff i dont consider designed properly). you get paid, but you DEFINITELY don't put that in your portfolio, i just look at those projects as money in my wallet. sometimes people just don't want to listen to what the "professional" has to say and have their own vision. at those times, you just sit back and watch the money pile up as you create crap.

****ty deal, but it happens sometimes and you can't do anything about it.

[info@rkirby.com]

Well you are all heading in the right direction. I charge between $175 to $250 per hour and I have more than a enough work so I am no rush to reduce my rates, but on the other hand I am not in the position that I can dictate creative style to my clients. I subcontract a lot of my work out and pay Flash designers $100 - $125 an hour to do sections of a site. This client is typical of the kind of client I get.


This is a site that I would include in my portfolio (read on to see why), it really does work for the client and target audience. I saw the comment about children and old ladies. And in some parts of the country you may be right. But in Palm Beach Florida you are dealing with the wealthy retirees. The Tee-Shirt company sells thousands of these shirts with unicorns jumping over rainbows, rhinestone studded flower bunnies and the like. It's a multi million dollar business and the more cutsie the tee shirt the more they sell. So the client wanted something that would make the average teenager barf, but would appeal to the target audience. The page has been shown to several of the 'Palm Beach Set' and they go wild and crazy over it.

I am lucky if one in ten of the sites I create is done in the style that would have participants of this board going 'Wow', a combination of the price paid, owner interference in the design or an obscure target audience makes them less than portfolio material.

Having said all that, there is a lesson to be learned. Whilst I look at some of the wonderful Flash productions out there, the target audience tends to have a lot of competition amongst designers. I am nearing sixty and work with the senior crowd and with corporations, my clients are split about fifty-fifty between these two categories. I have almost no competition in this area, plus I never get resistance on my rates. I frequently get told, charge me whatever you think is fair. With corporations, I get a monthly retainer, usualy in the $2,000-$3,000 range where I do ad hoc projects and maintain their web sites. So what is the lesson to be learned. The lesson, and you can argue on this one, is that going after clients who are not the traditional source of Flash customers, is an excellent way of maintaining profitibility.

Being an ex finance VP of a Telia, a European Telecom, I am better at business than at Flash. I hope, one day, I have the time to tutor myself to make the two equal. But in the meatime I do have an advantage over those that are better at Flash than at business.

[Tommy_S]

charge between $175 to $250 per hour
:huh: And I must charge with my skills/knowledge - $350-$400, then... (?)

P.S. I'm amazed. :d:

[info@rkirby.com]

:huh: And I must charge with my skills/knowledge - $350-$400, then... (?)

P.S. I'm amazed. :d:

Maybe, but I have found that once you go over the $250 barrier you end up doing detail work that the customer does not appreciate the time gone into to it. Or putting it another way, does one do six middling sites for $2,000 apiece (which are easy to come by) or two great sites for $4,000 a piece (where clients are harder to find)

[G]

i just think the background needs a very light gradient or something else to brake the bg up.

[info@rkirby.com]

i just think the background needs a very light gradient or something else to brake the bg up.

Read my earlier post, it will have a gradient, I have just have not got that far yet. Great suggestion though.

[joerj11]

Hey if you ever need some one to do flash work for you at $100-125 an hour be sure to let us know. OK:thumb:

[MetteBB]

I still dont think this is right... but maybe thats cos I dont knwo how people live overthere... I'm just not seeing any justification in doing a design like that and charging (or being paid) that amount for it. Perhaps when the site is up and running I can better see the whole picture and get the point...:worried:

so would you post the link for the finished site when it is up and running?


/mette

[musicwithcolors]

it's a cold world. charge what u can get. i mean if people are willing to pay, take it. apparently u have gained some name amongst the business community just dont screw that up. all about the image.

[info@rkirby.com]

Yes I can post the finished site. The twelve page site will have PHP, MySQL, one hundred shopping cart items and database integration. That's the hard part. The good part is that eleven pages will look the same except that they will be populated with different images using XML. So in the end $1,500 is probably about right.

Although I have been joking about taking money from rich americans. I avoid overcharging, because I like to get repeat business. There are instances where I do overcharge and that is when I have a customer who is a pain and I do not wish to see again.

[info@rkirby.com]

Hey if you ever need some one to do flash work for you at $100-125 an hour be sure to let us know. OK:thumb:

I usualy farm out a dozen or so sites a month, most of it is done for me by companies in India and China, I only pay $100 per page, so if you are still interested let me know. Special projects I take 20% commission.

[ScHAmPi]

So actually you are like nike and all those other multinationals :P.
You get the hard work done by others and pay them only $100 and earn loads of money yourself... well that does sound like a businessman but I don't know if I would feel good doing that. All I had to say about this :)

[info@rkirby.com]

So actually you are like nike and all those other multinationals :P.
You get the hard work done by others and pay them only $100 and earn loads of money yourself... well that does sound like a businessman but I don't know if I would feel good doing that. All I had to say about this :)

Yes, you are probably correct about this. But there is a twist, the profits go to training Paraplegics to do Flash, Dreamweaver etc. I perform on class a week in via conference call and then go their homes in and around Yakima, Washington State and train them. There software, computers etc are purchased with the profits. They are at the stage now that they are just beginning to do their own web sites, with a little Flash. I can send you examples if you wish. I am retired so I don't need the money for myself. The pleasure is seeing their sense of accomplishment and having them feel that they are doing something useful. They, will be getting the full profit from their web sites. (and in one instance is).

[Willofdarkness]

i agree 100% w/ tommy_s

i think the site is horrendously ugly, and $1500 is way too much to be charging, i dont care how many pages it is. that thing is UUUUUGLY.

[info@rkirby.com]

i agree 100% w/ tommy_s

i think the site is horrendously ugly, and $1500 is way too much to be charging, i dont care how many pages it is. that thing is UUUUUGLY.

Well we both agree, I think it is ugly too. But its what the CEO wants and she and the board are thrilled with it. By the way it's not just ugly, it's Fugly

[unchew]

If you are charging 1500, at least use a new light tower, not one copied from another project... :S