KIRUPA! I must know.

[Phil Jayhan]

Kirupa-
Can I ask a personal question? When did this board start and what was it like your first days? Were you waiting for people, did you go and promote yourself via web related places? How long did it take before the board wasn't a lonely place? How long does it take people, enough of them to find a board like this and start using it? I am curious because I am looking at this EZ board thing for my own site. Would you reccomend it or is there another you now know would be better? Anyone else here at the beginning? What was it like? Im curious, very curious.

pj

[upuaut8]

I'm not too sure how soon I got into this site. I know that when I came here there were only 10 to 15 regulars.

I've my own ezboard.. which is sadly unpopular :)

I'd say, unless you can justify paying the cost to keep the banners away, don't bother. It will take a while to catch on no matter what unless you have really vital information that people want to converse with each other about.

[liveacoustic]

I would also like to know the answer to Phil's question.

To paraphrase it (or at least what I want to know), how exactly does one go about promoting their website?

[Phil Jayhan]

Live-
What do you mean by promote?

Dave-
Did you go for the 6 bucks a month, no banner deal?
And can you get EZ boards for free if you allow the banner? And are they that awful? Do they force pop-ups on people? Tell me more please.

pj
:p

[liveacoustic]

Uh, I was going with to attempt to sell or popularize by advertising or publicity. That's definition #4 in the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition...

I want to know how to make people visit your website, personally. I figured you were doing a round-about way of saying that, too, but I may have misunderstood you.

[upuaut8]

If you don't pay, you get popups AND banners.. plus half of their f@%ing popups have html errors in them.. highly anoying

[Phil Jayhan]

Live-
You Smartass! :lol: Find what people want when they get online and build a site to suit it for them. That was my idea for mine. I think its better than many sites I go to now. Find peoples wants and supply it. People love everything to beat their fingetips without ****ing around all day trying to find each site individually. Most are not capable of doing sustained searches for stuff, so realize this and supply it al at your site. Want to see a great exampleof this in operation, check out this site, I cannot even ge a translation most of the time becaus eit so so busy.


www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran (http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran)

Dave-
Thats what I thought. Thats a non starter fer me.

pj
:p

[upuaut8]

You're best bet for a forum is to get a site provider who offers PHP and Mysql and then do your own board from scratch. Plus the experience is good for you. :)

[eyezberg]

This translation link is SO funny, look what it did to the intro of my site:

Thanksggiving setting expend Macromedia® flashTM about attitude intensive . In order to d'en make the most of, you have need any Macromedia Flash Player, a plug- in for your navigator able d'afficher thanksggiving content .
If you ne see not him texte defile ci- dessuspourquoi, cannot him download and l'installer dès now? Is easy, breakneck What about you join the 222 millions about people thanksggiving make the most of d'ambiances musical, belongings loud and animation complete at any interface attraction .

He suffice about clique about him bond hereinafter ...

If anybody can figure out what this is all about...

[Phil Jayhan]

Ilyas, Live, and Eyezberg-
Tellement vous guys réflexion MOI pouvions comprenons Français hunh? Sain , supposition à nouveau frenchboys! J'ai écouter tout de votre un grand nombre offense en français et seulement kep silencieux jusqu'à ce que maintenant. Mais Je devais dites quelque chose maintenant , vous stupide Français type mâle être humain unité! Et pas de , Je fais pas les boissons les égouttement de âgé chèvres ****! Thanksggiving c'est une interner binds créions près de idiote. MOI étonnement si MOI can @#%$ jurer dans coq téter Français et tranquille prendre mon message avoir la communication kirupa EZ le conseil?? MOI schiste argileux sous peu voyons. Ultérieur aligators! :rollin:

Sincèrement
Phil Jayhan Doh! ;)
Please don't tell Kirupa the language I used:lol:

[I am not Jubba]

I love those traslators becasue they aren't very smart. They are really for only translating single words and even then they don't work. Because they directly translate and with most languages that doesn't work (I'm sure you all knew that). I typed in "you suck a monkeys ***" and translated it to Japanese and it gave me something like "****, (then a bunch of characters about a monkey), a$sh0le" And I asked my roommate to translate the characters for me, it was pretty funny.

[liveacoustic]

Find what people want when they get online and build a site to suit it for them. That was my idea for mine. Phil

No, no, Phil. That doesn't actually work. You can have the best website on earth, but that doesn't mean people will visit it - simply because they don't know it exists. Like I said, I want to know how to promote a website. How to get people to know it exists. Do you go around being an annoying bastard on random forums and say "Visit my site and loveeee me!!!!"?

I'd mainly like to hear Kirupa's opinion, because he was successful enough to get me to visit his site.

And, Phil: if you're going to use Babel Fish to translate from English to French make sure the English is right, first. Mon dieu, il n'y a rien que la merde dans son cerveau. (Actually, that might only make sense in litteral translation... I'm not sure about French slang... It's only a second language, as I'm sure Pom and Eyezberg have noticed and everyone else has been completely unaware of...)

[RenaissanceGirl]

If you want your site to receive a lot of hits, you have to put "britney spears naked pics" as your key words. Type it somewhere on your page. Sit back and watch confused **** fanatics search your site for the coveted Britney photos.

[I am not Jubba]

SO that was YOUR SITE!!!! ;)

[Phil Jayhan]

Also place the words Big Black ***** into the Meta Keywords for a lot of hits. It is one of the tops hitters at Go.com.

pj
:D

[kirupa]

Hi guys & RenGirl :)
Sorry for the delay in responding phil, I'll be busy with schoolwork at least till the end of this month. The forums were quite slow when I first started this about a year ago (December 2000). I had my own little community/forum thing at: communities.msn.com/kirupacom (http://communities.msn.com/kirupacom) .

Yeah upuaut, there were only about 10 or so regular posters back in the day :) I never really did much in the way of promoting this site. I simply linked to the forums on my site, and my site got quite popular with this. Once Ezboard started using the annoying pop-up banners, I decided to pay for it and get them removed haha.

ROFL at your meta keywords Phil. You should do standup comedy haha :)

I have to run for some AP Exam class, I'll be back shortly and hopefully provide a better explanation than the 'stuff' I just provided lol.

Cheers!
Kirupa

[upuaut8]

So that was YOUR site Phil?? ;)

[I am not Jubba]

lol

[Phil Jayhan]

Ok,
I will give a few hints and helps that I have found along the way. First of all, if you are going to seriously market your site you will want to use site submission engines, but for many of the reaons you wouldn't think of; There are many Site Submission engines that are top in many engines and directories as far as relevence. When you use their site for submission they send out your link to a whole bunch of search engines but also a bunch of FFA (Free For All) pages. Some of these pages, believe it or not, are at the top of some hot Directory's and simply having your link on their page will allow your site to always be co-ranked as far as relevence. It is a huge help, more than you can know and it will be helpful for exposure.

Site Submission Tools
1. If you use them, (Site Submission Tools) make sure you take out a new garbage e-mail address for the return junk mail which will NEVER stop once you do this. Ignore this rule at your own peril. i.e kirupajunkmail@yahoo.com

2. Never pay for it. There are so many for free and it is the same exact service. It doesn't take terribly long to do but you should set aside at least 1/2 - 1 full day for this alone. But it is helpful. Make sure you spend adequete time on the Foreign search engines in such countries as Brazil, China, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, India, etc..(See others below)

link:
Kirupa has 570 URL's that link to it. Thats an awful large number for such a short time. Now heres what happens at Yahoo when someone does a search for any of those other URL's; Yahoo, is a directory, NOT a search engine. When one of those other sites that link to Kirupa gets closer to the top as far as relevence and popularity, Kirupa's site too will rise in relevence rating within the Yahoo Directory Structure. Wanna see it yourself, go to Yahoo and punch in, link: (just 5 charachters, the word link and a semicolon, cant do it in brackets it turns to a smiley, Maudit!) before the entire web address for any site you wish this information on. It will then show you all the sites that Yahoo has in their directory with links to Kirupa, and other Directories and engines that it searches through it's meta-crawlers as well.

Reverse Relevance
But it works in reverse as well. Hence many will see part of the scheme of my site. Yahoo does the same thing backwards so to speak. Sites with many links that are highest in Yahoo's relevence are treated in the same fashion. Those sites will rise in relevence in the searches and the site will appear more and more, the higher those other links sites are in relevence. i.e. My site will generate a lot of traffic within a short amount of time if for no other reason than my selection of links. They are all top notch links and the most popular sites on the Net. In other words the search engines and crawlers will welcome my site with open arms as I splashed into the net linking to all the favorites, that consequently are high in relevence and searches.

Key Words
As pointed out above, they are essential for traffic. Big black ***** by the way is one of the top hitters at Go.com. Another is Aliens, Roswell, and UFO's. Throw in Britney Spears breast exposed at last! and you will indeed find it generates extra traffic to your site. So make sure your key words are extensive and very telling and manipulative.

Key-Words should have corrsponding links
Another search tip is to have key-words & links that are self-linked. In other words, if you have a key word being; big black *****, there should be a corresponding link on your page, 'big black *****' or else the crawler will take points away and award you a lower relevence in it's directory when it returns home.

Meta- Tags
So make sure your Meta Tags are all filled out and overflowing so to speak. More is more in this case. Meta-KeyWords, Meta-Description, and Meta something or another. This is ultra important for a new site.

Meta Decription
In this case, less is more. Most crawlers will only pick up the first 25 or 50 words. This is the desciption you might see if you were at Yahoo and did a search. Each site that comes up will show you like 10, 0r 25 or 50 words to describe the site. This description is the Meta Description function in HTML. These desecriptionsmust be supplied to the engines and crawlers via the meta Desrciption. So be very concise and make it very descriptive. Make the description grab out to the searcher and say, click me, click me! Because that is what they are going to see when doing a search and your site comes up.

To Spam or not to Spam
Spend time spamming the ****ography boards with your link, it works! And your only helping these poor souls be distracted with something more wholesome, like your website that has no pictures of Britney Spears Breasts or big black *****'s. Doh! I got a lot of visitors, regular visitors to an older site I used to have with these methods. It works! I feel it is also fair since they hog all the bandwith on the net with their dirty pictures, to cause them a little annoyance. Easy crowd too! Doh! :lol: Newsgroups are excellent as far as getting recognition; They too werk on the directory method posted above, but they are also catalogued in the search engines and directories, thus it will help your relevence if your website appears in their newsgroups. It's worth the time. And don't spam the newsgroups, just a somber warning. This is one group that will turn and tear you to pieces. Just work it in slowly, following the rules. This werks though and is one highly effective long term method of exposure.

Content:
Have something that will cast the biggest net for people coming to your site. And make sure there is a big net to keep them their when they finally come. People want their news. They want to search. And they want the governments corruption all in one easy to find place. Hence my site, our site actually, I am just the Webmaster, Corpus Tyrannicus Research Institute. I think it will be a draw for people. I am even starting to like my site, and Im frellin picky. I already have 84 internal links. And like 18,000 external links if Dreamweaver is telling me the truth, I think it's lying.

Expired links & Extra money
Now many of those links are expired or will expire. No problem, once I set up my 404 file page, they will be directed to a 404 site that pays me 4 cents for each and every one of those suckers. I cannot police 18,000 links. And manyof them are in archived stories that most will not click on, reference stuff and stuff. Spend time in other countries submitting your site. This got me the most traffic. France, Germany, Canada, Britain, Singapore, Russia, China, Tiawan, Australia!!-These are good places and needful if you want international traffic right away (4-6 weeks).
Expect it to take about 6 weeks for your website to be thoroughly spidered throughout the web, worldwide after submission. Make sure your site is in it's permanent URL as well. Don't be trigger happy with these steps. Each in it's own turn.

Size; Appearance
Make sure your page loads quickly, has a pro look, and plenty of material. Now that you have spent all this time to get them to come, what do you have to offer them if they stay?

Avoid the piss-offs;
No small hard to read print ( a big sin of the flasher community)
Small, undersized buttons (a growing portion of our population id elderly and need big print and big buttons, and also a sin for flashers)

404's
Front page links that don't work. (Dont put em up if they don't werk)
The search engines a meta crawlers will also whack you heavy for this indiscretion.
Then the really obvious stuff like no black background with internet green print. No red print. Color schemes must be superior and pleasing, well pleasing. If they don't like the look they won't return.

Contact;
Make it easy to find. And make sure they can contact you. Most of the time it doesn;t matter if they dont get a return mail, but if they want to write you and cannot it is a turnoff.

Popups
Don't use em. Idiots made those to wreck the intenet experience. Don't give in to the idiots. Whoever first thought those up should be shot, along and after the person who invented the hold button on the telly. Or at least sacked.
Frames; Try not to confine people to your site within frames;

Navigation
Back button; I am unforgiving on this issue; With me it is a cardinal sin as many might already know; If I am surfing and go to your site and you make my return path void by blanking the back button or any of those other mindless schemes to imprison me in their site, I will never, EVER under any circumstance revisit the site.
No matter how cool, no matter what. That is unforgivable and selfish, it has ruined so many of my searches I would like to personally strangle the mind numbed jerk who invented it. But I digress.

Word of Mouth
And word of mouth which is the number one way, after of course having a site that interests them for more than 5 minutes. You better have something they want or else my take on human nature is they are gone and won't return. Fickle crowd. Remember that though, they want instant gratification for news, weather, games, whatever. But instant is the codeword. Long load pages are seldom revisited by me.

Incomplete Pages
Avoid placing an incomplete page in it's respective URL for more than 1 week. Trust me, this can kill all the visitors perceptions of your site. The search engines and meta crawlers also will rank punish you with poor relevence until they detect through another crawl, a correction. (And remember, there is a 6-8 week time drag for Crawlers, so don't make this error, be ready and waiting for them as honored guests) When I see an under construction sign, I am outta there. Just me but I think many are the same way.

There a few tips for now-
Hope some of them helped...
pj
:p

[I am not Jubba]

They definately helped for when I want to market the site I am going to be making. I think maybe this should go into the Best of Kirupa forum. :)

[liveacoustic]

Yeah. Good advice, Phil. Thanks.

[Phil Jayhan]

I feel so appreciatted at last! Doh! :D If Kirupa wants it for the best of, I will clean it up and make it as complete as possible. Let me know if you hear any such rumors.

pj
:D

[I am not Jubba]

Personally I think that is great information for anyone that is trying to market their site to a larger audience. I think it deserves to be put somewhere...maybe a tutorial or something like that instead of just a post...

[liveacoustic]

Alternately, we could just hook a pump up to Phil's head and embiggen it that way.

(I know, embiggen isn't a word, but I can't think of a good real word...)

[Phil Jayhan]

Jubba, Live, et al

Take a look at a new dictionary I am creating,
user.mc.net/~dschultz/ (http://user.mc.net/~dschultz/)

pj
:p

[I am not Jubba]

where at? i couldn't find a dictionary...where is it?

[Phil Jayhan]

Jubba-
Follow the material in the thread, then my remark about my dictionary, go to my site and you will see it right up front. It's the first word of the Corpus T dictionary.


user.mc.net/~dschultz/index.htm (http://user.mc.net/~dschultz/index.htm)

I made some changes to the post and cleaned it up. Is there anything missing you think?

pj
:p

[liveacoustic]

He put the definition of "embiggen" on the top.

[Phil Jayhan]

duuuuh

pj
:p

[I am not Jubba]

Lol sorry about that. My mind has been stressed out cuz of that 10 pager due tomorrow and the other 5 pager that is due right after it. They are both written, but now I have to go thru and make the corrections. One about Archaeology and the other about Art History. Fun stuff...I see it now...

[upuaut8]

good luck on em sir.. it'll all be over soon, for better or worse. :)


Definitely clean that up for the best of Kirupa Phil.. that's exactly the kind of thing I intended for that forum.

[I am not Jubba]

Phil, I guess you did clean that up. Its much neater now. Great advice. The target audience of my site is going to be skateboarders, so some of that advice I probly won't be able to use as much, but I will try some things.

[kirupa]

Hey Phil,
That is some great stuff you wrote! It should definitely belong in best of kirupa :)

Cheers,
A sleep-deprived student regretting he ever took AP classes.

[I am not Jubba]

Phil, I have a question that i was always curious about, and since you are so knowledgeable in this area... When I used to visit those *cough*w*cough*a*cough*r*cough*e*cough*z*cough* sites, I often find ones that have a whole long list of words that are the same color as the background.....is that the reason why? because they used them as tags, and if they don't do that then they will be docked?

[Phil Jayhan]

Jubba,
Those alternative sites do that for an unknown reason to me. It doesn't figure as it would accomplish the same or more by placint them in the mata tags. They also might do it to get a rise out of newbies who know no better, Im not sure.

pj
:p

[upuaut8]

lol.. I'm betting on the latter. ;)

[Phil Jayhan]

Kirupa, Dave-
Do you want this piece for best of? The piece is one page back and is the one about how to generate traffic-If you do I will go over it one last time and spiff it up and then you can do what you do.

pj
:p

[upuaut8]

Just copy and paste all of the relivant material from the post into a new one in "the best of" and give it a good descriptive subject line. :)

[I am not Jubba]

Ups, Pom, someone!? you ever gonna put this is the "best of"!?!

[ilyaslamasse]

Upu done it, Jubby.

By the way, I have a question about what Renni said. Let's say I want to make a site about anything, a museum, whatever. And I want traffic. I don't understand where I'm supposed to put Britney Spears' breast : you said there had to be a link on my site, and I find it rather disturbing to have such a link. So is there something I didn't understand ?

pom 0]

>> I'ev just read Eyez and Phil's post about direct translation, and je almost étranglé myself :rollin:

[Phil Jayhan]

Pom,
No you were confused for a good reason. E-meduium sucks. Voice is superior. Lets put it this way; Many people think the keywords are the name and the game. They think that by placing the words Britney spears Breasts in the keywords will drive a lot of traffic to their site. In a way they are correct. In a way, they aren't. While not every key word has to have a corresponding link, the search engines have in the last two years or so picked up on this little trick used by so many for so long. It really worked well 5 years ago when the crawlers were inferior to todays. And they ended up with a lot of evil **** sites cloggin their directory. In order to alleviate this they instituted upgrades that made it neccessary for the crawler to pick up the key words and wiegh them percentage wise against corresponding links. Lets say I own the NY Post online and really want to get the UFO community to come to my site. So I place keywords like, aliens, flying saucers, roswell. And knowing I already have the steadies, I take out all the keywords and make them as stated above. Even Yahoo would punish such an abuse of keywords by reranking their site according to relevence. It would immedietly be lowered in relevence when the crawler goes home and reports what it has seen, it would say something like this if we could understand binary; "I was just at the NY Post and all the keywords deal with aliens now, yet they do not have a single corresponding link, and this is going to make our directory worthless, people will search for aliens and not find them at these links." So what they do is weigh them percentage wise against links, not sure what that percentage is, its a secret for good reasons. And then they rank you according to relevence. In this case their relevence would be punished severely, for the crawler would feel like it was being taken advantage of, and also their directory. The crawler does do a third level search of content sometimes, but it is random and arbitrary. So, lets say that museum has all keywords like; Picasso, Renoir, Michael Angelo, Russian Crown Jewels, and maybe another 30 words like that and then they have; Britney Spears Breasts as the last keyword. The crawler doesn't get upset with the site in such cases and metes out no relevence punishment. It saw the keyword michael angelo and found a link, same with the others. But it doesn't find a link for Britney Spears Breasts.(Dman, I think they should be on public display! Doh!] It does the math and when it is within the percentage acceptable, it just logs it and moves on, accepting the meta keywords and meting no relevence deranking. Because this will NOT render their directory werthless. This all came about a few years back when the engines and directories turned a cold shoulder to the **** industry who was the largest abuser of this system. They would place things like; Cloths, Aliens, Front Page News Stories, Loch Ness Monster, Potpouri, Indianapolis 500, Medical supplies, and whatnot as their keywords. The site would find a top listing at Yahoo as that is the content they were after. But the site was ****, filth. And their directory became a living testament of this; After they cleaned it out they decided to do away with that trust factor they had relied on, and forced sites to have a percentage of key words match with corresponding links, or else they would suffer either no listing, or a very poor one, as the directory and keywords are systems that you and me find what we are looking for; So you dont have to have a secret link, but your keywords had better pretty well describe the real contents of the site or the crawler will know. And punish. Does this make any sense or clear up what I said before?

pj
:p

[ilyaslamasse]

Gasp ! OK, thanks a lot Phil. That's dead on what I wanted to know (is this correct ?).
pom 0]

[Phil Jayhan]

Gasp is right. :x Thats why I didn't even bother saying anything about this earlier as it is hard to put in few words. But yes, it is correct. There were a few things that have changed in the last 10 months about Meta Keywords, Descriptions and Title. You can see the updated version of these three categories where Uppy moved that link to; Also, since your already going there, probably, could you do me a favor? Please remove that top header note where I asked Dave to move the message,(everything above the line) and also change the title to; Site Submission Techniques and Tools
Or else people might not really have an idea about whats in that post. Just make sure at least 80% (my own arbitrary number) of your keywords have corresponding links and/or the content to show the relevence of the key words. This in a nutshell was set up like this to help our directories not become meaningless, as they had a few years back before they instituted these changes.

pj
I]

[B3NKobe]

Yeah thanks heaps Phil ;) :kommie:

[RabBell]

holy thread ressurection batman :cool:

[fester8542]

:lol:

I was thinking the same thing....

Why did you bring this bad boy back to life ben?

[B3NKobe]

:lol: - I was viewing another thread before on here and at the bottom it said something like "Similar Threads" and had a few links and it took me to this and I read a bit of it, and there was alot of interesting things that this Phil guy said on Page 2, so I just said thanks to the guy even though he most likly wont read it, :D:D

// Hey and it is Random remember!

[upuaut]

BLAST FROM THE PAST!!!!

[mlk]

...and there was alot of interesting things that this Phil guy said on Page 2...

// Hey and it is Random remember!


:sigh: This Phil guy is somehow the history of the forums, as a sidenote.

[hsadan]

holy thread ressurection batman :cool:

:lol:

[ben_is_sparky]

This Phil guy is somehow the history of the forums, as a sidenote.
Yeah, I have to know, now that it's come up again. Who is phil? He's mentioned quite a lot. It's like one of those cheap horror films where there is a piece of the shady history of the place that nobody will talk about. :P

[kirupa]

Yeah, I have to know, now that it's come up again. Who is phil? He's mentioned quite a lot. It's like one of those cheap horror films where there is a piece of the shady history of the place that nobody will talk about. :P
An ex-mod :ogre:

[Voetsjoeba]

And much more than that ... but that part is in the shadows :P

[RelandR]

... like when he declared himself to be dikktater ...
http://www.easininto.com/dikktater.gif

[Jasninder]

:lol: RR
i really thought Phil was back :(

[j_polo9]

Let's say I want to make a site about anything, a museum, whatever. And I want traffic. I don't understand where I'm supposed to put Britney Spears' breast : lmao

[Alex]

wow... i thought phil came back

:(
lol

[GW02]

I wouldn't know. I showed up like 4 months after he left I think.

[T-O]

So you could be Him! :P


Phil was cool.. but he was teasing me allot just before he got banned. :P Changing my sig and status. banning and un-banning me :P It was funy the first few times..

[minimalistik]

God wtf lol, I seriously though Phil was back on the forum :D Its been a long while since hes left us and boy does the original date of the thread tell us something. 3 years!