PCs vs. Macs -- The Showdown!!

[dansflash2001]

Feel free to state your opinion on either one. Personally I love macs, and I am getting the G4 Power Mac. So you see, I am a mac fan. What do you like better? START THE SUPERLONG CHAIN!!

-Dan :|

[I am not Jubba]

yeah...well...uhmmm...yeah...

[RenaissanceGirl]

I'm a PC person, but after using Macs extensively for a digital arts class, I'm convinced that the Mac is superior in the area of graphics design. When I'm done paying of my student loans (about a million years or so) I plan on investing on a G4 myself!

[upuaut8]

If you've not tried out OSX on the Mac, you can't make an educated comparison. It's a beutiful OS and it's easily as powerful as window's 98. More stable too. With PC emulation, and a dual processor set up, you can't compare the two. Mac is as good as the PC for anything, if you have the right hardware and software on your machine.

[Phil Jayhan]

Macs are too expensive and as often as I upgrade...Jeeesh, it would too expensive. But they are nice.

pj
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

[upuaut8]

that I will give you.

My friend who swears by his G4, is always teasing me that I should get rid of my PC. I don't see why I should. For everything I do, it's perfect... probebly better, as I already know all the workings.

I have used the dual G4, 1 gig of Ram, firewire Diskdrive, setup with a variety of software. For the money it works really well, and is far more stable than any Windows version I've seen so far... except perhaps Window's XP, which is also very good.

Both are very intuitive. setting up easily and adapting to new hardware without much work. That's what's really important to me.

So, it has stability over Window.
it has the ability (with a pricetag) of using all of your Windows based software
With a dual processor, a gig of ram, and a firewire harddrive, you have the absolute fastest hardware I've ever seen.
and ease of setup.

All of this cost bucks though.. and you're absolutely correct, upgrading them, and or reparing them is a bit of a pain.. there are very few Mac repair shops yet. But that's changing all the time.
You see all the Macs on TV and in Movies lately? It's like a culture craze for people to show them. Especially the cub and the laptop, but any chance to show off the Apple logo seems to be taken these days.
Within a few years, at most, the prices will be low enough to be comparable with anything that the Window's market has to sell.

[dansflash2001]

I have tryed out the OSX and I love it. No stupid wizards, just nice smooth perfomance...even with 10 programsa open! I love macs!!

-dan:|

[kirupa]

Macs are excellent for graphics design/video editing/flash :) They also look cool too. Because I play a lot of games, I use a PC. Besides that, Macs are great alternatives to PCs if you are a designer....ack....must finish studying for school!!!

Cheers,
Kirupa

[eyezberg]

PC!
1:i HATE the mac mouse,
2:easier to configure (should've tried to get an DSL connection for MAC yourself some months ago..)
3:many more hardware options
4:"open" system, basically you put in there whatever you want..
5:some softs are simply not available for macs (D and stuff..)
6:cheaper
7:and the list goes on..

[I am not Jubba]

i'm with eyez on all counts (that mouse is such a pain in the a$s). I'm not a graphic designer so I don't care about the MAC's abilities! :p

[upuaut8]

you can buy a three button mouse for the Mac.. emulation software will let you run any PC program.. those two aren't viable. :)

[I am not Jubba]

blah:p

[dansflash2001]

@#%$ strait!

-Dan :|

[tdfwrestling]

i had a love affair with a Mac once... it was great... we did everything together... woah i swap everything for another go...

i dont have a mac... i have a PC and i love PCs the do what i need them to do... but i traid it all in for a Mac... the are just the supreme version of SLiCK...

im poor tho

:(

TDF

[liveacoustic]

You can buy a three button mouse for the Mac. Upuat

Yeah, but how compatible are Mac programs with that mouse?

Emulation software will let you run any PC program. Upuat

Legal Emulation software? Because if it's illegal, it doesn't count as a counterpoint.

And if it's legal, that means it just costs more needless money and needless time for installation. Meaning that P.C.s are superior in that sense.

I'm with eyez on all counts (that mouse is such a pain in the a$s). I'm not a graphic designer so I don't care about the MAC's abilities! Jubba

I'd say that about sums up the whole argument. It's not a matter of superiority, it's whether you want a gaming machine or a graphics designer.

[RenaissanceGirl]

I blogged about Macs a couple months ago - here's how I measure up the Mac at the time:
<hr>
Everything is beveled... everything (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/52/wo/ZZT7L1yXm06vzt8qpt/0.3.0.3.30.35.1.0.1.3.1.3.1.1.0?122,57). Rounder / chunkier = better... we all know that! Plus everything has stripes, clear handles and buttons... milky, shiny side panels... very, very swanky.

The default desktop interface matches aforementioned cute, aqua bevel essence. Yes I know - I'm shallow like that.

The flat-panel screens (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/52/wo/ZZT7L1yXm06vzt8qpt/3.3.0.3.30.10.1.1?34,30). Now I know where my money is going! These bad boys are nice - 17 inches of good lovin' framed with milky stripes and a crystal clear pedestal-thingy - plus the power button lights up when my finger goes near it. See... the Mac is very affectionate. Not like that cold, heartless PC I have sitting at home!

Easy navigation and less clutter - mama like! There's this cool bar thingy that I can toggle only when I need it... Instead of taskbar buttons, they have a drop-down from which I can jump from one program to another... how fun is this?

And of course, the obvious: the Mac is just graphically superior. I am touching up some of my old work on this baby and there are a lot more details that I can create... of course that could just be the far more superior, aforementioned flat screen monitor. Regardless, Photoshop on a Mac is not so annoying. My PC attempts to commit suicide anytime I'm attempting to run Photoshop alongside a couple other applications.

But again, there are some things about it that I did not find very nice:

My hand simply doesn't like this perfectly round mouse. Now I like the bevelishness but I find myself having to twist and contort my entire upper body and it's still not comfortable.

The loss of right-click privileges. Viewing a web source or stealing images are a bit more painful now.

The loss of ctrl+alt+delete privileges. When things start too run slow... I can't take my anger out on the trio of buttons. Who knows how else I'm going to channel my impatient and eventually violent tendencies.

The placement of the apple/four-leaf clover (a/flc for short) key. Now the a/flc key is liken unto the control key on PC systems... I still don't know what the Apple control key does. At any rate... my pinky would normally reach over and I can easily ctrl+Z myself out of a bad situation. But now my hand has to scrunch up to allow my pinky to search for the a/flc key, or my ring finger has to extend down, but doing either is usually inaccurate, so in order to do a simple operation of undoing my mistakes via the ctrl+Z route, I find myself having to painfully remove my hand from a perfectly good typing position, and using one index finger to hold down a/flc and the other to hold down Z. You see what I mean. Good, I thought so.

[upuaut8]

Didn't anyone see me type "For the money". I agree, for the money, it's not as useful, or as fun to me, and obviously to some others as well. If I wanted to upgrade my system today, to the top of the line, it would cost half the price, possibly less than to upgrade the G4 to it's top of the line state. As well, I would have a lot of enjoyment out of swaping parts, overclocking, stuff like that.

The G4 units are however great for doing anything, if you want someone else to do all that icky hardware/software installation stuff. As well, you pay out of the nose for it.

The emulation software that I was refering to is legal, and costs a couple hundred bucks. So far, we've found very little difficulty getting anything to run on the system.
The Three button mouse, I'll admit does not work the same as it's counterpoint on the window's systems, but it does give you more than the basic, which is crap.

I'll continue to argue for both platforms. As long as they stay on a unix base os structure, I'm happy.

[time2design]

There once was a day when I swore I would never use a PC for design work. Now I almost use it exclusively for design (at home).

Macs' OS are definitely superior though (especially OSX). It's a friendly face for computers and most non-techies feel it is more approachable I suppose (much easier to learn).

Unfortunately, we live in a world where "popular" supercedes "superior." I once thought Macs would die out (before Steve Jobs came back with the original iMac) but I think it has a long future ahead of it now. Of course "long" in tech-speak is only about a year. :)

I'd like to see the Mac gain more than 10% of the computer users (at least up to 30 or 40%); but I'm always a sucker for the underdog. ;)


t2d

[dansflash2001]

Well, see, I got $2100 saved up for a comp...that is the 800mHz g4 power mac, and money is still coming in. It will be nice for a change not working on graphics and design on my piece of crap 433 mHz compaq...:)

-Dan :|

[upuaut8]

personaly I wouldn't use a compaq to prop open my door. ;)

[I am not Jubba]

dan where the hell did you get 2100? aren't you only like 13 or 14? when I was 14 i was lucky if I had 5 dollars...(yeah i know i make it sound like i'm an old man..."And I had to walk uphill to school...both ways...with no shoes...and no feet!")


I'm really hungry...I just thought you all would want to konw that. I get to meet my g/f's parents today! YAY! It should be interesting since her father doesn't really speak english all that well, and the last time I checked the only thing I knew how to say in Polish was "nice shoes want to f*&k" (which I can say in 7 languages, 8 if you count sign-language)

[time2design]

>>>personaly I wouldn't use a compaq to prop open my door.

roflmao

Definitely agree with you on that one upuaut.

I used to work at Compaq here in Houston and it was insanity.

One of the supervisors called my parents (which didn't make much sense since I wasn't living with them) and told them that I cussed him out and cussed out a security guard on my way out and that I shouldn't bother coming in the next day. Which, of course, kind-hearted little old me would never do.

It was quite odd. I had only been there like three or four weeks and was doing fine, no problems.

Oh well, their management is about as efficient as their computers.


t2d

[dansflash2001]

I will have to agree with that quote also. I HATE COMPAQS everything about them is bad, even the name! :) I have upgraded the hard drive, added in 256 mb of ram, upgraded it to windows xp, and it is still a piece of crap. I prefer calling it the "Crapaq" it is catchy isn't it :) . I love the new mac, and I can't wait to get something that doens't freeze up everytime I use 3d studio max!! :lol:

-Dan :|

[tdfwrestling]

personally i wont to know how to say "nice shoes, wanna f&*k" in seven different languages

can ya write em down please...

:D

TDF

[liveacoustic]

Well, see, I got $2100 saved up for a comp...that is the 800mHz g4 power mac, and money is still coming in. It will be nice for a change not working on graphics and design on my piece of crap 433 mHz compaq... Dan

'The hell? $2100 for a 800 mHz? Wow, Macs really are expensive... My computer's 1.4 gHz and only cost about $1900 Canadian AND I bought it about a year ago when 1.4 gHz was more impressive...


Dan: where the hell did you get 2100? aren't you only like 13 or 14? when I was 14 i was lucky if I had 5 dollars...(yeah i know i make it sound like i'm an old man..."And I had to walk uphill to school...both ways...with no shoes...and no feet!&quot;) Jubba

Ditto. There's been very few moments in my life when I've had much more than ten cents.


Personally, I wouldn't use a compaq to prop open my door. Upuat

Probably a good idea. I've had a couple of Compaqs in the past and none of them have been all that reliable... Still, so far I've had two reliable computers: my Tandy 2000 and my Dell now that it has Windows XP. And the Dell with Windows XP has started going really slow at precaching and that type of thing ever since Windows XP was installed, so it isn't without flaws even if it doesn't crash.


... the only thing I knew how to say in Polish was "nice shoes want to f*&k" (which I can say in 7 languages, 8 if you count sign-language). Jubba

There's a practical talent.

I'm so ashamed... All I can do is recite the first 15 digits of pi (3.141592653589793) off by heart...

[I am not Jubba]

Thats how i picked up one of my g/fs...she was deaf...so I used that pick up line.

[sodium15]

ya got to admitt that macs are the best performNCE macs win not doubt but when it comes to programs and hard ware combaibility pc's win no doubt but you are all forgetting about linux and unix (linux will prevail) www.linuxwillprevail.com (http://www.linuxwillprevail.com) linux is the best there is at the time it is just a under dog and is not that well heard of but will be heard of because compaq is starting to manufacturing them and is coming to a city near you! ; so watch out suckas!

[upuaut8]

We just installed virtual PC on my fiance's G4 single processor machine, Now we're working on the harddrive to make a partition NTFS for window's xp.. should be fun to play around with. It shows though.. even the not so top of the line MAC's are really quite powerful. The architecture of the processor is just plain superior.
Granted MAC has had it's little one hit blunders in the past as well.

The Compaq is a dumb machine.. though even that, if you had 30 hooked together using UNIX software would be mighty powerful.
Anyone seen a "Grendel" yet? 25 8086's hooked together using basic radioshack cost cabling. It runs UNIX on all the processors at once, or something like that. It's a supercomputer.
I know my company was selling 300 Compaq over the last 4 years. We sold them to schools and such for write offs, but I am kicking myself now that I didn't get in on the deal. I think they were going for 50 bucks a piece. Employees could pick them up for 35. I'd hate the machine, but I'll bet I could have made a pretty cool server unit out of 30 of those. :)

[RenaissanceGirl]

Whoa dan - where did you get that kind of bread! I'm worth about the amount you have but multiply it by -2! Do you sell crack in the streets? Do tell us!

[RenaissanceGirl]

Ok - here's another argument against the Mac: members.truepath.com/obje...ganda.html (http://members.truepath.com/objective/propaganda.html)

Scroll down to "Apple Macintosh."

[dansflash2001]

Ok, and I am posting to clear up your comments about how expensive macs are for what seems like "slow processing speed". First of all, with a mac, you take the 800 mHz comp that I am getting, and double the proccesing speed to get you into relation to the pentium (it might be more than 2x, I will have to check on that one). Second of all, any apple computer is a rock solid machine...it doens't crash, and I haven't seen one apple computer that froze :) ! Third of all, the ram is also better than regular PC ram. I had like 10 programs running on an 800mHz g4 mac, and it still ran like there was no tommorow. Yes macs are expensive, but you pay good money for a good computer don't you!

By the way, I got the $2250 (now it is $2250) from $450 in the bank from First Communion, my dad gave me $1000 twards the mac, I racked up $100 worth of change from lunch money (oh crap), and I just had my Confirmation, and I made $550 from that, and I had some exta bills floating around in my room.

PS: I think that this is my first big post :) !

-Dan :|

[RenaissanceGirl]

Whoa - that is a big post dan! At any rate, I agree with you about the Mac - you pay a lot but you get a lot. I worked on a G4 for my digital imaging class and that thing ran so smoothly even with all sorts of applications running.

[dansflash2001]

I am so sorry, but I have found the best PC!! Screw the mac...check out this loaded PC!!

-Pentium 4 processor 2.4GHz
-400MHz Front Side bus
-512MB DDR266 SDRAM
-100GB 7200RPM hard disk drive
-16x max. speed DVD-ROM drive
-24x10x40 CD-RW drive
-SoundMAX 3D audio
-128MB GeForce4Ti 4600 AGP card
-V.90 Conexant based PCI modem
-Intel 10/100 LAN
-Microsoft Windows XP Professional restore CD
-1 Year Limited Warranty with On Site Hardware Service

(No screen included)

FOR ONLY $1999 OH $HIT!!!!!! ONLY $1999

It was hard to relize that this was a LOADED PC, and (sorry ReniassanceGirl) kicked the mac's *****. If I was planning to get the dual 1GHz mac, it would be a different story though...but then, I don't have a $hit load of money, only a cr@p load :) . I couldn't turn this deal down. I still give A LOT of credit to mac computers though ;) !

-Dan :|

[liveacoustic]

Welcome back to the light side, Dan.

Just wait and watch - you'll see they're ALL like that. It's a beautiful world, isn't it, Dan? $2000 can easily get you a top of the line P.C. . . . Heavenly, no?

One of us! One of us! One of us!

... oh, wait. I wasn't totally opposed to Macs. I just thought they were best for graphic design whereas a P.C.'s good for everything else...

One of them! One of them! One of them!

[dansflash2001]

...and what a buttiful (beautiful) world it is liveacoustic!

-Dan :)

[upuaut8]

that still doesnt' kick the Mac's ***. It's just a good deal. :)

you can't convince me guys. I've seen both run the same software side by side. I've used both machines in my home for years now. When you have a G4 and your PC on a network in your home for a while, come back and we'll talk. ;)

[Phil Jayhan]

Hey Dave-
Can you please tell me how to say 'Nice shoes, wanna @#%$' in Chinese? You'll be a lifesaver man....

pj
:lol:

[I am not Jubba]

that was me. and I don't know chinese.

[dansflash2001]

OK upuauti, I need some advice on this one...I LOVE the mac OSX, but I love this PC too. Practically all I do on my computer is flash, photoshop, 3dsmax, and sometimes play games (Max Payne, Starcraft, etc.) Now, I only can afford the 800MHz mac with nothing upgraded, with a 15 inch screen. I also can afford the top of the line computer with the same money, and still have $100 or so dollars to spare. What computer is right for me?! I LOVE macs, and PCs are ok too. I am just worried about the mac because I am afraid that the 800MHz is a little too slow, even if it is a G4 processor...please help me upuauti!! :)

-Dan :|

[liveacoustic]

The speed isn't apocolyptic. Hell, at this point I'm pretty convinced that they've never actually changed the processor speed of computers, they've just put a signal in the faster processors telling the computer that it's compatitble with all this crap and the other, secretly equally as powerful but differently labeled, processors are not.

Get the Mac, especially if you're just doing graphic design. It might not be as compatible with games, but it won't crash and I'm pretty sure Starcraft and Max Payne are both available for Mac now anyway.

[dansflash2001]

Thanks for the input liveacoustic! :D ... By the way, I networked my home computers (by myself :) ) and I wanted to know if I can still share printers on the network.

-Dan :|

[RenaissanceGirl]

If you spend a ridiculous amount of time on your computer (like me) mostly doing graphic design I say get the Mac. I think it's comparable to SUVs - you shouldn't spend so much extra dough getting an off-road car unless you're actually going to take it off road! Other than that - I PC would do you just fine.

[dansflash2001]

Sounds good, I am on my computer about 24/7...all graphic design, starting to music edit, and boy MAX PAYNE SHURE KICKS *****!!! Nice, a nice mac with a nice mac flat screen with a nice STUPID ONE BUTTON MOUSE!!! Hahaha, no I will get the 2 button one :) !

PS: Gonna really take my mac off the road, maybe through it off a cliff or something (:lol: just kidding!)

-Dan :|

[liveacoustic]

After that post, I'm 100% sure you need to get a Mac. Now buy it. Now, @#%$ you, now!

[upuaut8]

I'd say if you're limited on fund's Dan, that you should either wait, or if you can't, get the Window's system as long as that's what all your software is. Without the dual processor the PC emulation software is not highly useful, and it cost bucks to boot anyway.

If all your software is Window's based, stick with what you know. The change over to mac is pretty pricy.

[dansflash2001]

I am too poor to get the dual 1GHz processors, and there is no chance in hell that I am gonna rack up another $1300 dollars! But 800MHz is soooo slow!!!!!

-Dan :|

[upuaut8]

I wouldn't say that. I have been using 800 for two months now and find it perfect for almost anything...

[RenaissanceGirl]

A Mac's 800 meg can go toe-to-toe with a PC 1 gigger any day! I have worked on both systems; I think the Macs at school were 650 megs... no more than 700. It was much more efficient and crash-proof than my 950 meg PC at home. I was working in Final Cut Pro, Photoshop, Illustrator, Director all at once on those Macs. If I attempted the same feat with my PC, it would have committed suicide on me. I guess you could say: "It isn't the size of the wave, it's the motion of the ocean!"

Edit: upu, PC emulation? I don't think Dan would need that. Other than certain games, there really isn't any PC software that hasn't made the Mac transition and if it hasn't, there is usually an equal or better replacement.

[Phil Jayhan]

I was working with Dreamweaver and Flash the other night, having both of them open. My computer, no lightweight @ 1 Ghz, 264 meg of Ram, kept freaking out, not crashing but freaking out. I know Unix systems will rock against PC's as far as stability. Unix is the ultimate as far as stability, but who wants Unix? Too hard, too difficult to learn. Maybe its an issue with Macromedia more than it is with my PC with whats mentioned above, I dunno.

pj
:x

[dansflash2001]

How is your computer freaking out!? I got a 500MHz compaq, (256 ram, 60 gig hd, windows xp), and my computer isn't freaking out at all when I run Flash 5, Dreamweaver 4, and Internet Explorer! Your computer is very strange...

-Dan :|

[splinx]

If I may chime in on this discussion with the observations of an artist who works exclusively on the PC.

First of all, this is extremely good advice:
_____________________________________________

"I'd say if you're limited on fund's Dan, that you should either wait, or if you can't, get the Window's system as long as that's what all your software is. Without the dual processor the PC emulation software is not highly useful, and it cost bucks to boot anyway.

"If all your software is Window's based, stick with what you know. The change over to mac is pretty pricy."
________________upuaut8______________________

A little background:

I haven't used a Mac in a long time, 'tho I started out on a nifty little Apple II+ almost 25 years ago. That was a lot of fun. I had Computer Eyes, a Koala pad, and wrote my own graphics editors in Applesoft with machine language subroutines. Yep, I had one of those little multi-colored apples on my rear bumper and was a big fan of the Cupertino firm, to put it mildly. Then Apple came along with the Lisa, the Apple III and some other very pricey dogs, before finally producing the first Macs

About that time I got a contract gig with an engineering company. I used tech pens and traditional drawing media in those days, and stuck with that client for a number of years. Soon, the publications department where I worked decided to switch over to computers in hopes of avoiding the big typesetting costs we were incurring.

After evaluation, it was decided that "IBM-compatible" computers would fit in better with the company's existing engineering and stenographic systems, which were all PCs, mostly 8086s (XT) with a sprinkling of 286's (AT) running WordPefect, DBase, and the like under DOS 3 or so.

Our department's first PC was a Compaq 386/20 with about 2 megs of RAM and maybe 256K video. We used it to run Ventura Publisher for desktop publishing, and Z-Soft's Publisher's Paintbrush for graphics (the PCX format). Output was to a LJ II, and we also had a Scanjet. In those days, Compaqs were very good, but slighty ideosynchratic machines.

I recall that somebody came over from the MIS department to see our set-up, and remarked with awe: "We could run the whole company on that machine!"

I think our entire system was around $10,000 and we were paying that for typesetting every couple of months, so this changeover saved the company a lot of money right from the get-go.

We printed manuals from our 300 dpi originals on a high speed Xerox system. We had small runs of 20-100 documents, and the main issue was to get the information out to the users in the field, not satisfy a bunch of fussy art directors peering intently at kerning or serifs with a loupe.

Ok, back to the present.

If you're going into graphic design, if you have a healthy bankroll, and if you prefer to swim with the rest of the fish, then there are strong arguments to get a Mac.

The graphic arts industry, especially print, is dominated by Macs, for two reasons: 1) They are arguably marginally superior to PC's for graphics work 2) Macs are firmly entrenched in the printing business. No PCs need apply.

I did some work awhile ago for a local print house. They would not accept CorelDraw files, and wrinkled up their noses at anything which came from a PC, even if it's Adobe. When I did some prowling around, I found the two primary reasons they wouldn't accept Corel files were: their software was several versions out of date, and none of their graphics experts had any competency with the application.

I think situations similar to this are commonplace in the print industry, and for that reason alone, an aspring graphic artist should probably go with Macs, especially if you're a joiner rather than a fighter.

The counter-argument to this is that the PC, in capable hands, can match anything produced on a Mac. Period.

The primary variable affecting the output from any computer, in any application, is the skill of the operator, not the the speed of the machine. Stability plays a big role, it is true, and in that regard, again, Macs are arguably marginally superior. However, a strong-counter argument to this general truism is that there are a wide range of OS's available for the PC - the many flavors of Windows and Unix/Linux, AND a lot of the stability problems with PC's can be traced to improper installations, buggy drivers, DLL conflicts and the like. Many if not most of these problems stem from the fact that many PC's are loaded to the gills with misbehaving "free" stuff downloaded from the internet.

Most PC stability problems can be avoided by a little self-control over what you put on your machine.

Again, it is true that some applications on the PC are resource-hogs, and you just have to live with the reality of running that application all by its lonesome. Even with 384 MB of RAM on my Dell 866, 3DS Studio Max won't share resources with anything else, and promptly goes belly-up if I try to start another ap.

BUT, for less than $2500, I was able to get not only the 866, but also a 766 laptop with 192 megs, and still have some $ left over for other stuff, like a Wacom tablet. True, my laptop is a Compaq, but it's been reasonably well-behaved, especially since I started refusing cookies. It's easy to end up with many thousands of those little buggers bogging down your system.

So, when I'm running MAX and need to, say tweak a texture, I just slide over to the little laptop and bring up Photopaint, do what I have to do, and deliver the result over my network. Yeah, I have Photoshop, but I prefer Photopaint for many things - better interface, imo.

So, to echo what was said above: if you have already invested $ in a lot of PC software (Max goes for over 3 grand, for example), and you are skilled in the world of Wndows, it probably makes more sense to dance with your existing partner, and network a new PC with your existing box(es).

If however, it is critical for you to be compatible with the print industry, then you should consider getting a Mac and Quark, because that's where a lot of the jobs are these days. When times are good again, I'll probably consider adding a Mac to my stable, although not the fastest one.

For the best of both worlds, the ideal is to have both a PC and a Mac.

At the end of the day, I'd rather have 3 Civics than one Porche. But if I have the money and the garage space, It'd be nice to have the Porche too.

That's the way it looks from here.

:cool:
sp

[I am not Jubba]

good point Splinx, but its Porsche. :)

[Note: forgot to add the smiley :) ]

[splinx]

Yea, I never drive what I can't spell, so I don't have a 'slighty' or a 'Wndows' either, but I do have a Civic.

BTW, the prices mentioned above for the Dell/Compaq duo are from about 16 months ago, during which time the Dimension 4100 866 lost a hard drive (6 mo out) and monitor (9 mo). They both run under OEM Win ME with modest stability. After a while, I've learned that certain combinations of aps are more likely to cause problems. Interestingly, the two machines fail differently. On the Dell, applications just go bye bye - they wink out and disappear. This is always a signal to save out and reboot. Seldom does this machine lock up.

But my Compaq Presario 1200 laptop locks up when I overload it, and only a cold restart will bring it (slowly) back to life. All in all, I'm relatively satisfied with both machines. Each was around $1100.

Actually, my most stable machine is an old DTK 166 running Win 95. Of course, it also barks at passing cars and howls at the moon, but once upon a time, it seemed swift indeed. I actually ran Max on that machine for a couple of years.

Also in the interest of accuracy, that $10 grand figure I mentioned included two o' them Compaq 386/20's with 120 MB EIDE drives, and (small drumroll) NEC Monograph monitors, which displayed in portrait mode for DTP, and were the source of many adventures in the days of DOS and Win386.

:cool:
sp

[upuaut8]

Yea, I never drive what I can't spell

lol.. I'm with ya there my friend.

[dansflash2001]

Did u know that they outlaw macs in South Korea and Iraq because the mac computer is too powerful...they use macs to launch off missles...(wow)! I think thats the first thing that I am gonna do when I get my G4 Power Mac! :lol:

-Dan :|

[upuaut8]

Here is a MUST CLICK LINK.

www.raytracer25.btinterne...oilet.html (http://www.raytracer25.btinternet.co.uk/iToilet/itoilet.html)

[ParanoidAndroid]

after using my new Athlon xp 2000 compared to my new g4, I'd say that i'm switching over to mac. photoshop runs faster on pcs these days..check it out. i was suprised on some recent benchmarking, that macs are losing their advantage. Pc also for 3d and sound..

[Phil Jayhan]

Dave-
Cute, very cute. Are those NY public johns by the way?

pj
;)

[Phil Jayhan]

If a picture paints a thousand words....

[Phil Jayhan]

http://user.mc.net/~dschultz/mctoilet.jpg

Have I made myself clear?
pj
:lol:

[upuaut8]

I know people who would buy a toilet like that.

[Phil Jayhan]

How about people who like colors?

http://user.mc.net/~dschultz/mctoilet1.jpg

[dansflash2001]

The amazing iToliet!!

-Dan :|

[sodium15]

is that a toilet or a boday

dan do have you heard of planet of the drums planetofthedrums.com (http://planetofthedrums.com)

[Phil Jayhan]

Sodium-
Its a terlit. That site was sweet! Amazing what a simple little sound will do to a simple menu in flash. That sound does it all. I loved it! it was sweet! Doh!

Chill-
pj
:p
did I get that right this time? hmmm?

[Kimokun]

I love macs. there the best in the world.

[Phil Jayhan]

are not!

[upuaut8]

are too!

[Phil Jayhan]

not. infiniti!

[Chump dumper]

as an EX apple engineer i'd like to SAY - MACS SUCK AWAYS HAVE AWAYS WILL... IVE SEEN TOO MANY BROKEN ICRAPS AND ALIKE FOR ANYONE TO TELL ME OTHERWISE - THE CUBE IS A OVERHEATING PIECE OF MONKEY CRAP AND BASICALLY THROW IT ALL OUT THE WINDOW AND GET A DECENT PC.

[RenaissanceGirl]

Is this conversation still happening? ****it... I'm just bitter that I'm two posts too late to add my clever "D2" after upu's "are too" comment. *shucks*

[Phil Jayhan]

Renni-
History has a habit of repeating itself; Here ya go!

are too!

pj
:p

[RenaissanceGirl]

D2!!! harharhar... I'm such a geek.

[Phil Jayhan]

:lol:

[upuaut8]

omg lmfao

To each their own. like I said, no matter what I get in the future I'll have a windows or unix based system. That will never change and anything else will be in addition to that.

[hal9000]

planet.... im sorry there isnt a single thing i could do on a mac that i couldnt do on a pc that cost half the price and do it in half the time....

[upuaut8]

Hmm... Sounds like the people have spoken. :)