I'm liking this browser [Archive]

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 02:31 AM

I had been using NS7 for a while, but still ended up using IE6 for a lot of sites (NS would lock up quite often).

Then, after an HD crash, and upon rec from Rengirl, I d/l Mozilla...

After I uninstalled NS7, it has been a wonderful experience.

Have you used it? Do you like it?

I just gotta say... Tabbed browsing is way cool. You can bookmark a group of tabs, plus a bunch of other things...

just curious on a Friday evening...

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

eyeinfinitude

February 22nd, 2003, 02:35 AM

I've heard some great stuff about it through Lost, he uses it and likes it too so I should give it a shot one of these days. =)

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 02:38 AM

yeah, abzoid (my brother) just d/l moz...

the new skins...

much, much better than IE...

I think it is actually quicker...

maybe I'm biased...

maybe I'm drunk...

:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

c!rYx

February 22nd, 2003, 02:39 AM

Mozilla is really one of the best browsers. It's always a part before NS... I like it

akurth

February 22nd, 2003, 02:39 AM

I might get it. Simply for the popup killer. I hate taht more than anything. I don't want windows to popup unless I want them to.

Also there a new release, which fixes the DHTML bug (whichever that was).

I did here people have probs with some DHTML and CSS.

But hey I might just have to get it simply to beta test my sites.

c!rYx

February 22nd, 2003, 02:41 AM

Have to add something. Mozilla is precaching ....
I don't really know a lot about it. But it is preloading the links on a page and it roxx ;p

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 02:42 AM

It is essentially NS7 without all the AOL Bull****....

anything other than MS :pope: ...

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

lostinbeta

February 22nd, 2003, 02:42 AM

Mozilla is faster than IE. And Yes... as with NS or Mozilla there are ALWAYS some CSS and DHTML Bugs :( It is hard to code for them equally sometimes.

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 02:44 AM

I like the fact that there is a lot of settings on the preferences menu...

very personable...

:love: :love: :love:

:blush: :blush:

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 02:59 AM

www.mozilla.org

http://images.animfactory.com/animations/holiday_events/new_years/new_years_couple_kiss_md_clr.gif

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 03:07 AM

but... of course... (http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.2.1/mozilla-win32-1.2.1-installer.exe)

http://images.animfactory.com/animations/objects/clothing/dancing_street_shoes_md_wht.gif

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 03:45 AM

so you don't want the 10 million viewers phrum AOL to view your site?

it isn't only NS anymore...

plus, just because you can't code correctly doesn't mean it's Mozilla's fault... IE came up with a diff standard, and then gave away it's browser...

go with the flow... you prob use Outlook as well...

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

Marz

February 22nd, 2003, 03:59 AM

AOL? AOHELL!

I'm sorry but.. IE is supported by the leading software distribution company in the entire world.. And Mozilla and Netscape?

I'm going to have to agree with Phil.. It's become a standard that all BROWSERS conform under the WC3 standards of all webpaging programming schemes and set-ups. It's not IE's fault that it is actually conforming to all of these standards..

I'm sorry.. I don't spend enough time looking at my browser's preferences or group settings or color schemes or skins to actually want to try something like that.. I enjoy the fact that everytime I open up a website with IE.. It opens..

Code correctly?! Do you know how much of a pain in the arse it is to make your code readable not only once.. not twice.. but 3 times! That makes file sizes larger and re-routing and everything more diffucult to manage.. Of course this hasn't been a "total problem" as of recently but still.. Ugh.. It's just a pain..

I use to always open up Netscape just to test out my websiting scripts.. Cause 9 times out of 10.. it wouldn't display everything correctly.. And that kind-a sucked trying to figure out (in my early years) how to make it work for that..

Maybe I'm just "going with the supposed trend" but if having a browser that's reliable about 99.9% of the time is a trend.. Then hell.. Count me in.

Not saying anything to "DIE MOZILLA AND NETSCAPE" or anything like that... Just trying to defend my IE.

:)

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 04:00 AM

sorry Phil...

just viewed your site, saw no big diff between moz an ie...

what is the prob?

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 04:06 AM

Originally posted by playamarz
Code correctly?! Do you know how much of a pain in the arse it is to make your code readable not only once.. not twice.. but 3 times! That makes file sizes larger and re-routing and everything more diffucult to manage.. Of course this hasn't been a "total problem" as of recently but still.. Ugh.. It's just a pain..

I understand Marz...

but... NS and Moz are the same engine, so you only have to code for 2... there would only be one, if IE hadn't mutilated the code to begin with. The biggest prob is that IE invented "new JavaScript and DHTML behaviors" that only work on IE...

IE only became popular because it was given away. When it was the same price as Netscape, no one wanted to use it. Netscape invented JavaScript... IE made it sloppy...

I'm not saying don't use IE, I'm just saying this is a great alternative, and if coded correctly, will work just the same.

The people who are trying to make 1 standard are the same people who will stagnate the web as a growing medium. We would all be listening to 8-tracks under that theory...

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 04:13 AM

Phil:

wait a few months... you will see the "others" increase

besides, you don't make money off of your site anyway... so you can do what you want.

Microsoft will enjoy your patronage. Go King Bill! All other wannabees will be snuffed!

Netscape was the original browser, MS just flooded the market with their product. No code needs to be purchased, WC4 made sure of that...

It's the novice come lately "I can build you a website" designers that don't want to learn how to code for both, so they pick the most used browser. This is just what Microsoft wants.

If George Bush said, "this is the browser to use" and picked some off the wall browser, it would prob even beat IE...

Sheep... the world is still a bunch of sheep following the leader, I swear...

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 04:20 AM

figures...

just a hunch that the 10 mil people on AOL switching over to the moz engine...

then again, on your site, maybe not...

don't have a firm grasp on your demigraphic...

one toothed housewife with 18 kids, and a beer?

j/k

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

Marz

February 22nd, 2003, 04:21 AM

Not only does IE have the power of the new JScript for it.. But you are not seeing some other things that most people don't even know about IE!

- CSS : Come on.. This has got to be the single greatest tool for webdesigning out there.. Without it.. Alot of the JavaScripting people would do wouldn't be all that great.

- DirectANIMATION : Alot of people don't know about this but IE created a bunch of Classes for internet explorer that can make it function like an animation product.. Things like the structured graphics control.. Which allows you to create images witha drawing api.. YEs IE has a drawing api with vector images.. That can be scaled rotated zoomed in and out and everything. Sequencer control is kind of like the setInterval of Flash.. it allows you to perform a certain action over courses over time. PAth control allows you to specify a path for an object to follow. Sprite control allows you to create a sprite to use for your IE board.

- Data Binding.. IE created the first knowledge of data binding through HTML.. Netscape came out with a system to counter it but you needed to use Java to set it up right.. Blah.. XMl and everything came through with IE.. And it's now one of the biggest systems through HTML

Those are just three great things that IE has done for the Websiting community.. Albeit.. They aren't used very often.. But think about the actual power behind them all.. technically.. You could create a game out of IE HTML and DirectANIMATION code.. That could rival some Flash 5 games.. It's powerful and it's there whenever anyone wnats to use it...

(btw.. if you didn't know.. I lvoe arguing for arguments sakes.. Nothing personal k ;) )

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 04:26 AM

great...

but if I write a game for Flash, but it is only available to people who download <i>your</i> player of Flash... otherwise it displays it differently...

Then, I make a deal which includes my version of the player on every new computer...

I can do stuff you can't see... and because I have made my player "manditory", it has become the most used...

How would you feel about that?

BTW - I don't take anything personal... you don't know me well enough to insult me...

:trout:

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

Marz

February 22nd, 2003, 04:33 AM

As long as it supports whatever the hell I concoct half the time.. Which is usually a mixture of php, html, dhtml, css and javascripting.. Then it's allright in my book.. I was just giving you some extras that people don't know about ie that can be implemented.

And.. They OFFERED btw.. And this is funny.. To give.. Not sell.. give.. the directAnimation control functionability to Netscape Browsers :o So.. Is it IE's fault that they declined?

Hmm (-:

hehe.. :) Yeah.. Look how Flash turned out.. They set up the basic mandatory neceseties for Animation Online.. You could still use Java to create stuff like that.. But java is getting outrun by something that gets the tag mandatory and ships with everything.

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 04:39 AM

it's all a point of view...

this is one of those marketing genius', just like VHS...

Companies which make a habit of buying competition, rather than makeing a better product to keep ahead irritate me...

just the small town boy coming out...

IE works fine, and is over 90% of the market...

I like giving Phil a hard time too... glad to hear this is a sore subject for him...

:bad:

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

Marz

February 22nd, 2003, 04:41 AM

*lol*.. I'm surprised there isn't some sort of debate board on this...

Phew.. I remember an old forum set that had debate forms.. WOW.. Talk about some uptight peop at times over subjects like.. Is Cheerleading a sport.. Blah blah blah.. I nearly got killedsaying it wasn't.. hehehe...

But yes.. All in good sport rev :) I'm glad this forum isn't full of uptight bastards who can't take a good argument :)

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 04:43 AM

THAT is why I visit only Kirupalvania...

Thanks Big K...

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

c!rYx

February 22nd, 2003, 04:53 AM

Hm hm, about 15% are using not IE.....

bcogswell11

February 22nd, 2003, 05:45 AM

I just have a quick question... If I install Mozilla to try it out, can I still use IE? I mean does Mozilla become your defualt browser or do you have to open Mozilla like you do Explorer, in which ase you could use both...

-brad-:evil:

Ryall

February 22nd, 2003, 06:36 AM

You would have to open the browser of choice....

As for what I wanted to say, why can't software companies develope a single open-source standard browser?? Profit in the browser market is mostly based on how well your product can interact with other internet technologies. Would it not be more efficent if there was a standard system that all developers could base new ideas on? Would this not be more profitable for the giants of the industry? WYSIWYG systems would always produce the same results when viewed... wouldnt this create a situation where the best program wins out not the best cross-browser code writer?? The amount of money wasted on creating the new better browser version is insane (esp when you consider the extent to which these companies go to to make them just different enough to maintain a loyal consumer source that believes their product is better - despite the fact that it is distributed freely). I dunno I could write pages about the economic gains to be made for these companies by having a standard system. I know I dont need to mention how much us coders would enjoy it, endorse it, and support it (hint, hint software giants). Just a fraction of my two cents.

Peace

Jubba

February 22nd, 2003, 11:51 AM

Rev! I really like it! Never tried it til now. I LOVE THE TABBED BROWSER WINDOWS!! Because I am usualy on 6-8 sites at the same time. And I have to agree with Rev about the browsers.

IE is really crap, but its so wide spread that it is the industry standard. It just supports lazy coding and lazy coders. If you make your site for Netscape or Mozilla it will work 99% of the time in IE. My sites look fine in Mozilla... actually every site I have gone to looks great in Mozilla and loads faster too... :)

CHeers Philbo...

Hey Phil... call me today if you can. :)

lostinbeta

February 22nd, 2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Jubba
If you make your site for Netscape or Mozilla it will work 99% of the time in IE.

Not necessarily true :( See... to do some things you have to use Mozilla/Netscape specific coding... but sometimes in IE... that coding is different... so neither of the methods work in both browsers.

But that goes for like Javascript and stuff. With HTML that statement is true. CSS is a sometimes with that statement.

Jubba

February 22nd, 2003, 12:49 PM

I have been noticing that if the coding is good and proper it works on both. All of my PHP and HTML files are working great.

But yeah I don't really know why i said that... :P

lostinbeta

February 22nd, 2003, 12:54 PM

Well PHP is server-side, so I don't think the browser effects that, and HTML... yeah, if the coding isn't lazy you are right, you will have no problems.

Jubba

February 22nd, 2003, 01:01 PM

dammit! STOP THAT! Stop being right when I say stupid things without thinking!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Marz

February 22nd, 2003, 01:02 PM

PHP and ASP are downloaded seperately and do not really get affected by which browser you are on..

CSS is drastically different from Browser to Browser...

JavaScripting is different at times.

HTML standards are pretty much the same.. But a few quirks here and there..

Why does it make IE coders lazy if we wnat to just code for IE.. What about some of you Moz/Net users. If you guys didn't wanna code for IE wouldn;tthat make you lazy coders as well? But see.. it's your own choice to pick a browers that isn't as popular as IE.. SO.. In theory.. You are just creating more work for yourself when you choose to code for Moz/Net and then IE when you do that.. And that does not make us IE users lazy.

As for the standards.. WC3 Ryall set up a standard base for all tags included into Net and IE back in versions 3 of the browers.. And ever since today.. They both have been drawing ever closer to the facts of that. One would develope somehting new and add it in and the other would add it 1 or 2 versions from now...

Etc.. Etc... But yes.. I do wish they would just make a standard base language for them both.. It's like this.. Would you guys wanna have to code your flash documents if Mac users couldn't see that code?! That's right.. Probably don't... It's like learning 2 different versions of one langauage.. Personally.. I forgot which tags would belong in which Browser.. Let's see.. This one gets this and this one gets that.. Wait.. Maybe not.. etc.. ect...

Anyways :)

lostinbeta

February 22nd, 2003, 01:04 PM

Playa: It wasn't said that your lazy if you code for IE... it is just that IE accepts lazy coding... so people tend to lean that way when only coding for IE.

Marz

February 22nd, 2003, 01:13 PM

Sorry that's what I took out of the quote...

Hey.. if it's the most popular thing.. GO for it.. I would code more for moz/net if over 25% of the people that visited any of my sites were that.. But they aren't... So I always stuck with IE. It's just that way...

Yeah.. It may suck that IE took oevr like it did.. But I accept that and use the browser that works best.

kirupa

February 22nd, 2003, 01:17 PM

I like NS7. Phil, while I did stop supporting all browsers a while ago, I still try to make sure that Netscape users don't see junk on their screen. I was probably referring to the "hacked" versions of browsers people created such as text-only Lynx, etc.

The best way to code for all browsers is to simply stick with tables and simple formatting :)

Cheers!
Kirupa :goatee:

lostinbeta

February 22nd, 2003, 01:20 PM

Oye... I don't even know how I can be in this debate.. my site doesn't work on Netscape because I was too lazy to figure that out....LOL. Nah... I don't think I was too lazy, I just spent 2 months getting it to work on IE and I didn't want to take anymore time getting it to work in Netscape. :(

<-- hypocrite

kirupa

February 22nd, 2003, 01:24 PM

Hey everyone!
I downloaded the latest 1.3x build of Mozilla, and I like it. I'm still gonna stick with IE because it is an old habit, but mozilla is actually not a bad program. I like this simplified interface.

I posted this thread using mozilla =)

Cheers!
Kirupa (-:

Jubba

February 22nd, 2003, 01:38 PM

I never said that people who code for IE only are lazy. You are going with the majority, and the people using Netscape will probably something similar to what you envisioned. I was merely stating that IE allows for a more lazy HTML and CSS code. They don't follow the rules as stricly in IE and Netscape and Mozilla do. Especially with CSS...

Jubba

February 22nd, 2003, 01:50 PM

ohhhhh I just found this and I like it a lot too....

www.avantbrowser.com

Its basically an add-on to IE. Lets you tab those windows and such. Its pretty cool... :)

c!rYx

February 22nd, 2003, 01:57 PM

Cool to see, everyone who tried Mozilla likes it.
I have just the problem with border=1 at mozilla, because it always makes those 2 borders. But, if you have enough time and you want your page to work in everybrowser. Then just make an extra row in your table 1px in the wanted direction and set the background color to your wished border color and everyone is happy.
Mozilla roxx

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 02:01 PM

Wow..

I still say I like this new version of Moz...

I still use IE when it doesn't work quite right, but prefer the Mozilla...

Marz... within a year I predict the "other than IE" clients will be over 25% again...

JMO

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

c!rYx

February 22nd, 2003, 02:03 PM

I hope so too....
Even if the speed don;t matters here, because I have a 1,4 Mbit Cablemodem, but at home, with this ISDN I really enjoy surfing with it....

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 02:38 PM

As Jubba said, I'm always surfing with 4 or 5 windows open. With IE, I surf with them all 1/2 maximized... gets pretty messy. now with Moz, I use tabbed browsing. that little feature of opening a new tab with the middle mouse button is pretty cool. You just rollover a link, middle click and the new page opens in a new tab... cooooool...

group bookmarks are really cool as well...

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif

Marz

February 22nd, 2003, 02:42 PM

If you really want tabbed windows.. Just go for Avant Browser instead... It has tabbed windows.. Is faster than Mozilla.. AND

It includes all of the standards for IE sicne it is an upgrade to ie.. :)

reverendflash

February 22nd, 2003, 02:47 PM

or....

I can use Moz, then if I want to see one of the 20% of the sites that code only for IE, I will open up IE.

Personally I don't like the way MS products "take over" your machine. For the same reason I do not like Real Player, and Quicktime. Everytime a friend installs a new upgrade (every other week it seems), it overwrites the application associations, so every .jpg/.gif is opened by Quicktime.

I know you can choose not to, but these guys don't know enough to do that, and Quicktime counts on that.

JMHO

Revhttp://www.aulman.com/rev.gif