Columbus Day - A day to ask questions

[aknatn]

Whether we should celebrate Columbus Day or not is a BIG question. Who was Columbus, what did he really do. Here is an article I found that doesn'y paint a pretty picture.:

http://www.trinicenter.com/kwame/2001/Jul/20010713.htm

[Maxtr0sity]

Who ever gets me out of school for a day deserves a beer. Tuche.

[SlowRoasted]

Yeah Im in a history class right now and we talked about how him and his men treated the "Indians" so brutally. He left some of his men on the island in the caribbean while he went back to spain to show some of his captured indians to them. When he returned his men had raped and molested indian women and pretty much took advantage of the indians' naiveness. If im not mistaken i think he eventually slaughtered them all after the indians attacked his men.

Wow and we are celebrating this guy?

[Yeldarb]

Yes, we are celebrating this guy. Regardless of what his men did, life would be much different if he hadn't sailed his three ships out into the unknown.

[Digitalosophy]

Yes, we are celebrating this guy. Regardless of what his men did, life would be much different if he hadn't sailed his three ships out into the unknown.

Thank you!

Things were different back then.

And btw I am part American Indian, and I still don't get mad. Each race, color, nationality has been through bad times, let's be glad for the most part it's over.

[shack]

they had quite a fight going on here, deciding where he was from.. and where he is buried... I don't know if they found out yet lol...

[DDD]

One thing I wish people would stop saying "he Discovered" or "Found" America. How can you discover or find something that was not lost. Thats like me finding 20 bucks in some guys pocket. I call that stealing. lol. I have a little indian in me as well. I dont get too mad. And I am glad that things are the way they are no telling how life would be had this never took place. It sucks now that we give them the most desolate areas as reparations tho.

[aknatn]

Well hello brother "Indians", I happen to be 1/16 native american, benefits and everything. It's funny that you can call all natives from north or south America "Indians", but it does not bother me, it is a label based in ignorance. But the point is whether or not this "Columbus" guy deserves enough respect to get his own day. Perhaps we should have some kind of "New World" day instead. There are a lot more people in the world that deserve their own days, such as Franklin, Einstein, and other real heros. What about Amerigo Vespucci who mapped America and is it's name sake. It's all a big conspircay everyone got sucked in to. You just make up a name (yeah, Chris Cloumbus ain't his real name) attach it to a con man (he suckered the Queen into funding him) and when the guy pulls a Homer (succeeds due to incompatance) you give him a day.

[brownie]

Grand Theft Rape and Genocide.
The Europeans did the same thing pretty much all over the world. Claiming countries, that were already occupied, as there own. Cpt James Cook (English) was allegedly the first to "find" Australia. As mentioned above, it wasn't lost. The indigenous people knew exactly where it was :)
They then proceeded to occupy the land basically turning it into a prison.

Genocide?
The Tasmanian Aboriginies (a people unique from the mainland aborigines) were culled out of existance.

Charming

We should have an international day for all people that have suffered a similar fate.

[kirupa]

I'm 100% Indian...probably the same type Columbus thought he spotted :P

[aknatn]

So.. K, do you think Columbus should be celebrated?

[kirupa]

So.. K, do you think Columbus should be celebrated?He is credited for helping pave the way for European/American relations. He was able to do what nobody thought he could, and one can argue that European settlements in the "New World" would not have started as early as they did if it wasn't for him.

I don't mind it being celebrated as a holiday. He was an important figure in history, and he simply did what was considered acceptable for his time. Andrew Jackson and Thomas Jefferson were slaveowners, but that doesn't mean that they weren't important or revolutionary Americans. You simply have to place their actions in the context of the time they were living in.

:nat:

[drake0013]

thank god i don't go to kent state.

[SlowRoasted]

what about the fact that the vikings went to north america before columbus? Should we have a viking day? Though it was actually around newfoundland.

[aknatn]

You simply have to place their actions in the context of the time they were living in.

Don't mean to go on about this here but, Should we respect them simply because "everyone else" was doing it. I mean geez, that's saying they don't have to pay for their crimes within history. I think they should teach the truth of all of historys figures then let the next generation decide if they want to keep those days or give them to people who didn't commit attrocities. Can you immagine 4th grade, "so after Chris Columbus found America and slaughtered the native people in the name of God...."

*disclaimer*
I am not saying that we should not be celebrating our historical figures.

I am saying we should keep questioning history. And yes we should have a "rape and piledge" day just for the vikings :evil:

[brownie]

I agree aknatn.

You can put their actions in the context of the day all you like. The fact is they still committed crimes and they knew what they were doing was wrong.

Grand Theft Rape and Genocide.

[paradox244]

Only in The United States do we complain about a day off of work...

[aknatn]

I didn't get the day off of work!!! :upset:

Maybe that's why I started this thread...

[paradox244]

Oh... in that case, I would complain...or become a banker/postal employee/military member.

[aknatn]

I am sure joining the military would make Columbus very happy

[paradox244]

hmmm well I dont think I have to worry much about changing the mood of a long since dead guy, so I will remain happy with my day off.

[Yeldarb]

The "genocide" has nothing to do with why he is celebrated. You can find something wrong with any famous figure if you look hard enough. He did some pretty bad things, but you can't dispute the fact that without him, the world would be a lot different now (and I would go so far as "worse").

[aknatn]

The "genocide" has nothing to do with why he is celebrated. You can find something wrong with any famous figure if you look hard enough. He did some pretty bad things, but you can't dispute the fact that without him, the world would be a lot different now (and I would go so far as "worse").

I agree, to a degree. Earlier I disclaimed that I am not saying we should not celebrate this day, I do think however it is a chance to remember that we were lied to in school (at least my generation was). We should take this very seriously and ask quations about the truth. Getting history right is essential, 'cause otherwise it's not history it's just rumor.

BTW: Why isn't there a Ben Franklin day or Alexander Gram Bell day or a Thomas Jefferson day. We don't have to get the day off of work but they certainley deserve a day in my opinon, way above Mr. killy Mcbump into a contitent I'm a hero guy.

[SlowRoasted]

I guess i agree we should still have columbus day. Seems like I heard somewhere that MLK had several affairs, but that doesnt eclipse the great things he accomplished.

[aknatn]

I think having affairs and slaughtering people are a little different... but I get your point.

[paradox244]

Give Hallmark long enough and everyday will be a holiday...they've invented like 10 holidays as it is