another ipod competitor?

[Jeff Wheeler]

Well, after the sony's ipod rival, I now see some more great competition: the Creative Zen Touch

24 hours batter vs. ipod's 12 hrs
very simple controls
20 gig is $269 vs. ipod 20 gigs which is $400!!!!
can use more formats I think (can ipod play wma?)
USB 2.0 for faster transfer
Search Features
4-band custom equalizer and advanced EQ presets let you customize your music playback
AudioSync™ lets you seamlessly update your Creative Zen Touch with your latest music on your PC at the touch of a button
FM radio, voice and FM recording via optional wired remote control (available separately)
Touch Pad Control for fast scrolling
Up to 97dB Signal-to-Noise Ratio - as good as expensive hi-fi systems!
20GB hard drive holds up to 10,000 WMA or 5,000 MP3 songs
Create and customize playlists on-the-go

http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=3&subcategory=21&product=10274&campid=20459

now tell me some reasons why the ipod is better?

[Krilnon]

1. Design copied off of iPod.

2. iTunes converts wma automatically.

3. Cheaper price means the quality is suffering.

4. (can Zen play .aac?)

[Jeff Wheeler]

I read the quality is higher in pcworld ;)

who cares if design is ripped?

zen can probably play aac, and here you won't have to convert, plus not everybody uses itunes :D

[Krilnon]

Not everyone uses AudioSync™ either...

The quality is only as high as the file its reading from. A 64kbps song will sound the same on either.

[Kyri]

Looks ok, but it's not as slim as the iPod is...
Similar design to iPod

[Krilnon]

Note:
- 1 Actual battery life will vary with use

You can say this with most music players, but 24 hours is a very flexible number apparently.

[Jeff Wheeler]

but the ipod can't nearly go that long, that's with continuous playback, and the max for ipod is 12 ;)

[telekinesis]

You think just because an iPod is $400 and the competitor is below $300 that it is better. When it comes to Apple you are spending a pretty penny just to have that apple logo on there. Being over the age of 12 you people should know that a named brand can sell a regular pencil for three times the value just by having it in their name.

[Krilnon]

Sorry to upset you Super Moderator Man. :(

I agree that some of the cost is for the Apple name.

[Jeff Wheeler]

was he upset?

anyways, that's kinda my point... a bit, or now it is :D

so I think the zen is better ;P

I thought we could start another debate.. but it doesn't seem anybody wants to :(

[Krilnon]

I always thought you were a fan of Apple products bp.

Do you think that the Zen would run on/work with an Apple computer?

[Jeff Wheeler]

well... all apple audio is something I pretty much hate... overpriced junk, but there notebooks, now that's a different story :D

ok... not overpriced junk, just not nearly as good as it should be ;)

and surely the zen would work on a mac :D

btw, anyone read the article about the dell dj now working on linux?

[mdipi]

Isnt FW800 faster than USB2?

The new 20 gig iPod is $300 not $400, the 40 gig is $400.

It's bigger than the iPod.

The iPod is a lot better of a product than the Zen. The interface although simple, not as nice. The iPod interface is adjusted to you, you dont have to adjust to it, 12 hours is still a great ammount of time for your player. The iPod is small enough to fit in your pocket, and light enough so that you wont ever know that it is there.

I love my iPod, i dont think i could do with any other player :D

[iloveitaly]

hmm. in the first place a 20GB ipod is only 300$ (hehe, only). Firewire is faster then usb 2.0...
The battery life is better which is cool (of course 24 hours is hyptheticail, so is the ipods 12...)!
But, it doesn't have the ability to take notes, play games, doesn't have a calender. I really dont think people are going to worry about 30$ too much.

Just my view on it.

[Jeff Wheeler]

when I said that the ipod was $130 more, I was quoting pcworld, my bad if they're wrong, which appearently they are, and you don't know that it can't take notes, seemed like nice software when I was looking at it ;)... and I would prefer to take the extra time with usb2 because then I don't have to buy the firewire slot ;)

[iloveitaly]

nd I would prefer to take the extra time with usb2 because then I don't have to buy the firewire slot
lol, i have a firewire and not USB 2. :blush:

[Jeff Wheeler]

I thought with fw you could also use usb, but that was probably a dream or something...

[mdipi]

Thats a dream all right.

How do you not have FW these days? I thought it was standard on all puters now?

Also - the iPod is USB2 compatable.

[Jeff Wheeler]

well... I've never needed it ;)... that's how ;P

[λ]

Thats a dream all right.

How do you not have FW these days? I thought it was standard on all puters now?

Also - the iPod is USB2 compatable.
Nope - not at all. I might be getting a new motherboard, and the ones I was looking at didn't have Firewire integrated (I've got a MicroATX case, so space is tight :()

Also - converting audio from one lossy format to another causes loss of quality because the different formats cut out different pieces of the sound file (but WMA sucks, so you shouldn't be using it anyway ;) OGG is the way to go)

[telekinesis]

Sorry to upset you Super Moderator Man. :(

I agree that some of the cost is for the Apple name.You didn't upset me Krilnon. No hard feelings dude, I didn't mean it that way. I just dislike Apple product prices. Nothing against you mang!

[minimalistik]

1. Design copied off of iPod.


how typical is that? In this case of the Ipod 40gb and the creative zen, your getting a better deal getting the Ipod than the creative. Based on prices here in Australia, the Ipod 40Gb costs $649 and the Creative Zen $499. For the price of per gig, Ipod is worth better. If you plan to purchase a mp3 player, just buy an ipod and still with it.

[Jeff Wheeler]

perhaps in australia or the 40 gig, but I was considering the 20 gig, hints that's what I linked to ;)

[MxNecromancer]

Ipod? Zen? I hate all MP3 Players. If you really want somthing good, get a Sony Atrac 3 Cd-Player.

96 max hours + Self Charger
100 Bucks
a Cd can hold approx 600 songs each
Slim compared to other Cd players
G-Protection, and all that good stuff
Plays MP3's

Sony Cd-Player (http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_D-NE710/4505-6490_7-20794400.html)

I use this all the time, and i never have a problem with it

[thesignx]

Does any body remember the frase... great stuff for the rest of us?
I think that is because there will be always people that doesn´t will ever think beyond the edge. Apple is doing great on hardware and more important they do great souls for them too, I´ll bet that Apple have great sorprises beyond the edge FOR THE REST OF US!...

[Jeff Wheeler]

max: that's exactly the one I own :D

but some people complain so much I have to find some other way to say the ipod is bad... :P

[mansour]

Ipod? Zen? I hate all MP3 Players. If you really want somthing good, get a Sony Atrac 3 Cd-Player.

96 max hours + Self Charger
100 Bucks
a Cd can hold approx 600 songs each
Slim compared to other Cd players
G-Protection, and all that good stuff
Plays MP3's

Sony Cd-Player (http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_D-NE710/4505-6490_7-20794400.html)

I use this all the time, and i never have a problem with it

2 hours to copy a single CD, r u kidding me, that's outragous!
wow i still can't believe it, i'm shocked, really i'm.
unless it's less than 15 minutes per cd, there's no way i'm getting that.

you know of anything that's quicker?

btw - since ipod is mentioned in this topic, is there a way to customize your own ipod, by that i mean, change the appearance and such....not hardware?

i hope someone knows in here!

[Krilnon]

You mean like change the interface?

[mansour]

yah everything, except for the inner hardware

[iloveitaly]

well, i know there is some applescript hacks-nothing spetactular though...

[Krilnon]

You can get stuff like 'skins' and 'shells' to change the outer appearance.

[paddy.]

a Cd can hold approx 600 songs each
How the hell do you get 600 songs on one CD??? I'm lucky if I can get more than 20.

[Jeff Wheeler]

by using atrac-3-plus format ;)

and you can put linux on an ipod and then customize it with anything linux can do... so it can have any application too... ;P

[telekinesis]

You can put up to 750MB worth of music onto a data CD made for an MP3 playing CD player. Figure each song is about 3-5 MB. Almost 200 songs on a CD. I used to have an MP3 player deck in my truck and that is what I did. Seperated it into folders and such.

[MxNecromancer]

2 hours?! that guy is a Dumb***** it take0s me about 1 hour. Even if that's the case. look at what your getting

[Jeff Wheeler]

takes me twenty-thirty minutes ;P

[telekinesis]

2 hours?! that guy is a Dumb***** it take0s me about 1 hour. Even if that's the case. look at what your gettingWatch yourself!

[MxNecromancer]

Mx: sorry Boss

Telekinesis: for the last time don't call me boss, it's disrespecting!

Mx: Alright Boss


god i love that movie :lol:

EDIT: watch Oscar if you don't know what i'm talking about

[morse]

Well, after the sony's ipod rival, I now see some more great competition: the Creative Zen Touch

24 hours batter vs. ipod's 12 hrs
very simple controls
20 gig is $269 vs. ipod 20 gigs which is $400!!!!
can use more formats I think (can ipod play wma?)
USB 2.0 for faster transfer
Search Features
4-band custom equalizer and advanced EQ presets let you customize your music playback
AudioSync™ lets you seamlessly update your Creative Zen Touch with your latest music on your PC at the touch of a button
FM radio, voice and FM recording via optional wired remote control (available separately)
Touch Pad Control for fast scrolling
Up to 97dB Signal-to-Noise Ratio - as good as expensive hi-fi systems!
20GB hard drive holds up to 10,000 WMA or 5,000 MP3 songs
Create and customize playlists on-the-go

http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=3&subcategory=21&product=10274&campid=20459

now tell me some reasons why the ipod is better?
New 4th generation Ipod has simple controls, 20 gigs minimum, and can play pretty much any media type. Ipod can update automatically or manually. Ipod also has an equilizer.

[nobody]

Geeze I'm surprised no one mentioned this.

iPod has the super cool clicky spinny wheel thing!
That's enough justification right there to pick one up.

[T-O]

I'm just thinking.... whem will this launch in europe....

[MxNecromancer]

Geeze I'm surprised no one mentioned this.

iPod has the super cool clicky spinny wheel thing!
That's enough justification right there to pick one up.
wheel things own!, i whould pay 400 bucks for a super cool clicky wheel thing!

:azn:

[mdipi]

wheel things own!, i whould pay 400 bucks for a super cool clicky wheel thing!

:azn:

I did :thumb: I woulda payed three times that for a chance to have one again. I only wish that it was more money :(








im kidding - although, i did buy one, its not in yet....

[mordaut]

ipod is so much better... the zen is bigger and uglier to start.

plus the sound quality is probably ****. it is also probably not compatible with itunes.

the reason an ipod would cost more is because you can use it with itunes, which is free. itunes also has a great music store where you can purchase songs from a huge selection for only 99¢ each.

there is also a large line of ipod products... zen sucks. end of story.

[zacus]

well im a sucker for a brand name so ill be goin for an ipod 20g...

i saw a kid at my school with one of these and they are surprizingly chunky for an mp3 player.

id pay the extra for an ipod 4 sure

[zacus]

How the hell do you get 600 songs on one CD??? I'm lucky if I can get more than 20.


if u hav an mp3-cd player you can just fill a cd with up to 700m of mp3's and ur cd player can read them =)

[Blenderben]

I personally like the ipod better, now that apple release athe ipod photo..i really dont think anything really beats that. a color ipod? its just nice...well only for those who have bottomless wallets full of money...although the price is high i would pay for an ipod

i've used a lot of creative products..from sound cards to mp3 players...they are nice, but never live up to the hype that they get..

and as far as battery life..i have mp3 encoded at VBR, that takes up a whole lot more power than a wma..as far as i am concerned, i think wma is easier to play than an mp3.

dont know why but this is just my feeling...

[hl]

Being over the age of 12
you mock me! haha... i still like the iPod a hella lot better... i don't know why, but whenever i see, hold, or listen to and iPod... my life relaxes :rabbit:

well okay its not that powerful... i wouldn't mind any mp3 player really... so i only like the iPod for its looks... ITS SO SHINY! i am starting to get interested in Apple... oh and hehe that quote is right... it's all by the brand name before 12 baby! :krazy:

[n_balajee21]

Can i stop a sound at any particular point and again it should start from wher it was stopped

[Byrnzie]

i own a zen touch the reason i chose it was due to the fact that most of my music is recorded in WMA format and i noticed a little loss in quality when converting to mp3 through itunes (and with over 900 songs to re-record i couldn't be botthered). i also listened to both and the sound quality is pretty much the same. Even though the design is ripped and it is a little chunkier it is still a good player and i have had no problems. I have an average battery life of 18 hours.

also i think it is funny how people have huge arguments over which piece of computer hardware is better. We have this one teacher at my school whom thinks that macs are the best thing, and he refuses to use pc's. to quote him "they are not PC's they are virus machines". Or this one guy in my year whom said his 700MHz P3, with 128 ram was better than my 2.53GHz P4, 640Mb ram. because i got mine from dell (dad was paying and he likes their customer suport and he uses them at work with no problems) and he built his own. some people, but it is the same with the difference with the fight between pc and macs or the zen touch and ipod. people will always try to say one is better than the other, but it all depends on whom the user is.

[T-O]

Got to test it few days ago during and expo. NO WAY is this anywhere near the Level of IPod coolness.

[Disco-Stu]

/me sticks with his CD's.

I hate mp3 audio for anything besides working out and skiing. The quality sucks!! I'll take my music at 1440kbps thank you!

[Butters]

Screw CD's, they are so 4 years ago :P

[Neil]

Get a Sony ! .... no matter what ....

I hate APple and other companies...even If i have Ipod Mini 4 gig..(its awesome). But i would still recommend SONY products (like my new VAIO laptop)

[Vexir]

Girls dig iPods. Kay? No argument :D

[Byrnzie]

Girls dig iPods. Kay? No argument :D

yeh thats one down side to the zen touch, when asked if thats an iPod - i had to say no, they asked the difference then i explained, i got called a 'nerd' (even though these were girls from my school and already knew i'm a 'nerd')

[GW02]

Girls dig iPods. Kay? No argument :D

So true, so true...

[λ]

/me sticks with his CD's.

I hate mp3 audio for anything besides working out and skiing. The quality sucks!! I'll take my music at 1440kbps thank you!
I'll stick with my FLAC thanks :P

[maxticket]

I got myself a Nomad Zen a while back, knowing the Zen Touch was going to be a bit spendier. I got a 40GB for about $250, and for me, the main drawbacks are the terrible interface and the button arrangement. I suppose the Zen Touch improves the button problem, but I'd be skeptical of the menu system, since the Zen's isn't very intuitive.

I'm a bit of a jerk regarding Apple. I can't stand the company, and it's been that way since my elementary school switched from Commodores to Apple 2G-whatevers. I don't like the Mac OS, and I'm pretty sure I never will. Add that to the price of Apple's equipment, and there's really no way I'll ever buy anything Apple. I do support Creative, and have good things to say about their sound cards, speakers and customer support as well.

As far as extras go, I never use things like equalizers and effects options. I don't use iTunes because I only rip full albums from CDs I've purchased or borrowed (not to be too self-righteous--music piracy is fine). I wouldn't need to take notes on an mp3 player since I've got paper and a PDA. So I never factor in the extra features that could be a selling point to others.

[mistdreamz]

check out the new creative zen micro so called the ipod mini killer....
very small, kinda cute too, and its available in 10 colors!!!!

[maxticket]

It looks like it'd be much easier to navigate . . . but 5 gigs? I think I've gotten used to having my entire music library on me, and anything less than 20 gigs would inevitably find me wishing I'd put this or that album on my player in the morning.

[mistdreamz]

... 5 GB is more than enuff for me... my entire music collection is slightly more than 5 GB, if u had 20 GB, how long are u gonna listen to? the batteryl life of ipod cant sustain till all ur songs finish...

btw, i prefer ipod too... it looks neater and cooler....

[Butters]

No MP3 players have a battery that could last for all of 20gb lol, thats days of music.

[maxticket]

Oh no, I don't listen to all 20 gigs in a sitting or anything, but when the urge strikes, it's good to know there isn't a song I can't cue up at any time. If I had less than 5 gigs of music, I'd definitely look into the Zen Touch Super Mini Jazzy Mega Color Whatever New Model We Came Up With This Month. But all the novelty models lack the space I want. And if the Zen's body is slightly larger than iPod's, I can't really complain, because my last mp3 player was a Rio Riot. That thing was twice the bulk of an iPod.

Speaking of space and battery life, the manual for my Zen gives tips for maintaining long battery life. One such tip says you shouldn't keep the hard drive constantly full. Anyone know what this has to do with battery life? It's a hard drive.

[Butters]

The more songs you have, the harder the player has to search for the song you want.

MP3 players don't last for the full length they say on the box.

[phantomxc]

I bought me the 20 gig Apple Ipod 4th generation a couple months ago for like $270 with student discount at the apple store ^_^. One of my best investments, now im just waiting for my X800 xt platinum edition in the mail. then my life will be complete. .....:p:

[KaiserSouze]

Looks like Sony is getting worried it's missing out on the MP3 player action...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002V85EU/202-5685284-1156646

Mixed reviews so far, but seeing as Sony like sending me stuff :hugegrin: (only cause I have registered 2 Minidisc players, a CD Walkman and a mobile phone with them in the past), I'd be far more inclined to buy a Sony branded MP3 player.

[maxticket]

One thing that bugged me about the Sony player is the battery. Sure they say it'll last 30 hours, but no battery can maintain that kind of stamina forever. And if you want a new one, you have to send it in for Sony to replace for you. My PDA currently lasts about twelve minutes per charge, which is long enough for me to periodically check my calendar when I'm out. I can't get it replaced without the hefty fee that goes along with sending it in to the company, not to mention losing all my data in the process and waiting two to four weeks for the turnaround.

I didn't get a definite answer on the iPod, but the Zen's battery is easily replaceable. Is this true with the iPod as well?

[Butters]

Omg yes!

I have said like 5 times in this topic, you CAN replace the iPod battery yourself for around £30, or Apple will do it for you for around £70.

[lethifold]

Here are my thoughts on it. I currently own a Zen Touch but have used an I-Pod 4G (my girlfriend's hehe)

Price-
In England (yup, I'm a brit), the price difference for the 20 gig models is something around £80, which is around $150
Vote- Zen

Battery Life-
The I-Pod had a maximum battery life of 12 hours. And that really is a maximum. My girlfriend has most of her music at 192kbps, and sometimes her I-Pod barely lasts 9 hours. Granted, that is enough, but compared to my Zen playing my music at 210-320kbps (I like good quality audio) and I consistently get around 20 hours worth of listening before the thing dies. That is a lot more with the Zen. That is exceptionally more. This is the main feature that it has over the I-Pod
Vote- Zen

Music Quality-
I have seen a lot of lab tests and graphs (I did my research before buying) and the Zen Touch produces less 'noise' and fewer harmonics at higher volumes. That means less distorted bass. Granted, the Zen has a maximum volume which is less than the I-Pod, but, at the same volume, the I-Pod produces significantly more noise. Also, the Zen provides a greater choice of formats to play without converting. If anyone doubts this, look up the facts on the internet, you will see that the Zen has better quality of sound, which is VERY important for an audiophile such as myself
Vote- Zen

Aesthetics-
No one can deny that the I-Pod looks better (though the I-Pod Mini range looks horrible). The I-Pod is smaller and thinner and looks a lot cooler. This is probably one of the main selling points. Don't get me wrong, I still think that the Zen looks cool, but I can't deny that I would favour the I-Pod for looks. However, one should consider the fact that the Zen is more robust and is more likely to be able to cope with being dropped. Ok, so it makes it heavier, but we all drop things, and I for one am thankful for it. Still, the I-Pod does win
Vote- I-Pod

Navigation-
This is a tough one to call for me. The I-Pod has less buttons and a nice scroll wheel. Zen has the touch pad which is a bit tricky to use but is quickly mastered. Though most people will refuse to believe it, I actuall prefer using the Zen's interface. The buttons make it easy to alter things quickly, volume, skipping tracks, menu, random etc. Most people think that the scroll wheel and the four other buttons make it better, but for me it just makes it time consuming to do things quickly. If someone could adapt to the Touch Pad of the Zen, I am sure that they would find the thing easier to use. In terms of queuing songs and finding artists etc etc there is little difference, so the Zen takes it just because it can do things quickly
Vote- Zen

Software-
Another difficult one to call. I like both versions of the software. To me there is little difference in difficulty between both of them. I guess it is just a matter of personal preference
Vote- Tie

Music Transfer-
Apple can use Firewire and USB 2.0, whereas the Zen can only use USB 2.0. Ok, Firewire is about twice as fast, which obviously makes it the better model, as it can trasnfer things more quickly. However, this doesn't really bother me, something taking 5 minutes and 10 minutes to upload to an mp3 player is largely irrelevant to me
Vote- I-Pod

Extra Storage-
The I-Pod can be used to store files, which is a good thing. The Zen can as well, but not as an external hdd. An extra program must be used to do it. This is a little annoying and is the only 'poor' feature about the Zen
Vote- I-Pod

Extras-
The I-Pod can do things like games and a calender. It also has some FM tuners etc. With Zen you have to pay for a wired remote. To be honest, the I-Pod having extra features makes it more of a gimmick to me. If I want to remember something, I remember it, not put it on my mp3 player. It just annoys me
Vote- Zen

Overall-
The Zen wins on all the important features- Price, Battery Life and Sound Quality. The Zen wins these catergories by a very large margin. The I-Pod wins on things that are not particularly important. The designs of the two models are fairly similar, as are the features, transfer speeds, with the I-Pod winning narrowly in these catergories. Some people will dispute the navigation between the two models, but personally I prefer the Zen. Some people will prefer the I-Pod. There is little difference between them
It seems to me that the I-Pod is aimed at novices who do not really value music quality or battery life but just want to have something with the Apple logo on it. The I-Pod, as a result of good marketing and nice looks has been set to the fore-front of the 'war' that is occuring. Teenagers and the easily influenced alike will buy an I-Pod just because it is the current trend. However, the people who value sound quality, battery life and most of all the LARGE price difference will clearly see that the Zen is the better model. It is similar to the I-Pod except it can easily play for twice as long and producing better sounds all the while
People should wake up and realise that the I-Pod is clearly an inferior machine, which is something that is quite rare for an Apple product. Sorry everyone, you can blindly pledge your faith to the I-Pod, but it really is a worse music player at the end of the day

*Prepares to get flamed*

[lethifold]

Might I just add that someone said earlier on in the thread that the I-Pod probably has better audio quality. It doesn't, really, it doesn't

[ya3]

yeh thats one down side to the zen touch, when asked if thats an iPod - i had to say no, they asked the difference then i explained, i got called a 'nerd'

lol! iPod has become synonymous with "MP3 Player", just like Wacom and 'tablet'. My teacher, after seeing my friend's iPod mini, decided to go out and buy one. Later on, he asks me to help him use it... I was like "omg, iPod!"... then he pulls out this 512mb USB Flash stick :pa:.

Anyways, I dunno why, but one doesn't necessarily need to be a nerd to own Apple products... they seem to be the less 'nerdy' computer stuff :hugegrin:

See, it's like a BMW. When you... :P jk

[Butters]

Here are my thoughts on it. I currently own a Zen Touch but have used an I-Pod 4G (my girlfriend's hehe)

Price-
In England (yup, I'm a brit), the price difference for the 20 gig models is something around £80, which is around $150
Vote- Zen
Im a Brit aswel, overall, i'm not to bothered about the price, perhaps a bit expensive, but I still bought 2 of them, and have convinced friends and family to buy one also. Price is really down to how much your willing to spend, and is more important to some and less important to others.



Battery Life-
The I-Pod had a maximum battery life of 12 hours. And that really is a maximum. My girlfriend has most of her music at 192kbps, and sometimes her I-Pod barely lasts 9 hours. Granted, that is enough, but compared to my Zen playing my music at 210-320kbps (I like good quality audio) and I consistently get around 20 hours worth of listening before the thing dies. That is a lot more with the Zen. That is exceptionally more. This is the main feature that it has over the I-Pod
Vote- Zen
I find the battery fine, I only need to re-charge mine once a week, and I use it 2 hours a day (thats a school week by the way, 5 days, not 7). The Zen has a better battery yes, but it is alot bulkier.



Music Quality-
I have seen a lot of lab tests and graphs (I did my research before buying) and the Zen Touch produces less 'noise' and fewer harmonics at higher volumes. That means less distorted bass. Granted, the Zen has a maximum volume which is less than the I-Pod, but, at the same volume, the I-Pod produces significantly more noise. Also, the Zen provides a greater choice of formats to play without converting. If anyone doubts this, look up the facts on the internet, you will see that the Zen has better quality of sound, which is VERY important for an audiophile such as myself
Vote- Zen

Personally I have never had a problem with the quality of music on my iPod, its pretty **** good quality, especially if you use AAC rather than MP3.



Aesthetics-
No one can deny that the I-Pod looks better (though the I-Pod Mini range looks horrible). The I-Pod is smaller and thinner and looks a lot cooler. This is probably one of the main selling points. Don't get me wrong, I still think that the Zen looks cool, but I can't deny that I would favour the I-Pod for looks. However, one should consider the fact that the Zen is more robust and is more likely to be able to cope with being dropped. Ok, so it makes it heavier, but we all drop things, and I for one am thankful for it. Still, the I-Pod does win
Vote- I-Pod
Yeah I do agree that the Zen looks pretty cool, but the iPod is brilliantly designed, smooth and just looks so perfect, you won't find a single screw on the outer casing, which can be said for a number of Apple's products. As delecate as the iPod may seem, it is very strong. Several tests have been done, and they will resist high falls onto hard flooring. I have dropped mine several times and it still works perfectly.



Navigation-
This is a tough one to call for me. The I-Pod has less buttons and a nice scroll wheel. Zen has the touch pad which is a bit tricky to use but is quickly mastered. Though most people will refuse to believe it, I actuall prefer using the Zen's interface. The buttons make it easy to alter things quickly, volume, skipping tracks, menu, random etc. Most people think that the scroll wheel and the four other buttons make it better, but for me it just makes it time consuming to do things quickly. If someone could adapt to the Touch Pad of the Zen, I am sure that they would find the thing easier to use. In terms of queuing songs and finding artists etc etc there is little difference, so the Zen takes it just because it can do things quickly
Vote- Zen

I think this is all about personal preference. I hated the Zen's track pad, its difficult to use, and very annoying. The iPod's scroll wheel gives you so much more control. Apple do something very well, and thats user interface, and you can really see this in the iPod, it's so easy to use.



Software-
Another difficult one to call. I like both versions of the software. To me there is little difference in difficulty between both of them. I guess it is just a matter of personal preference
Vote- Tie

What does the Zen come with? I have used so much MP3 software, and my favorite is iTunes (and Winamp). It is such a well-designed piece of software, easy to use and very powerful. You cant update an iPod as well using anything else.



Music Transfer-
Apple can use Firewire and USB 2.0, whereas the Zen can only use USB 2.0. Ok, Firewire is about twice as fast, which obviously makes it the better model, as it can trasnfer things more quickly. However, this doesn't really bother me, something taking 5 minutes and 10 minutes to upload to an mp3 player is largely irrelevant to me
Vote- I-Pod

Firewire is not twice as fast as USB 2.0, I belive USB 2.0 is faster than Firewire. However, Firewire 800 is twice as fast as USB 2.0. Firewire is my favorite connection, my laptop came with it built-in, as did my desktop computer.



Extra Storage-
The I-Pod can be used to store files, which is a good thing. The Zen can as well, but not as an external hdd. An extra program must be used to do it. This is a little annoying and is the only 'poor' feature about the Zen
Vote- I-Pod
I agree, nothing else to add.



Extras-
The I-Pod can do things like games and a calender. It also has some FM tuners etc. With Zen you have to pay for a wired remote. To be honest, the I-Pod having extra features makes it more of a gimmick to me. If I want to remember something, I remember it, not put it on my mp3 player. It just annoys me
Vote- Zen
It's not something you have to use, its just there if you need it. How can you give the Zen credit over the iPod based on features it does not have (and which the iPod does)?

And seriously, its iPod not I-Pod, get it right!

[ya3]

wow. That was quite comprehensive.

Someone I know has a Zen. It's just another one of those bulky, overstyled, silver plastic thingers with too many buttons and some useless touch-thing that only goes up and down.

And OMG, how much of an Apple photograpy-style ripoff is this??:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/multimedia/creative-zentouch/c1.jpg

[Jeff Wheeler]

Wow! my thread has gone far... it's old :P

anyways, two days ago I got my 4g iPod. Not quite perfect experience with iTunes, but I've had fun getting everything in my house to play it with ease. iPod's are wonderful, just they cost rediculous (how the hell did my dad afford to buy everyone in the family one? he doesn't even have a job! :P)... fun nonetheless...

and for people who say iTunes + iPod is the perfect combo, please read something I wrote: http://www.nokrev.com/archives/2004/12/itunes_import_a.html

Wow, my grammar sure has gone down on forums.

[Butters]

iTunes + iPod is the perfect combo, iv never had any problems with it on PC or Mac.

Your computer is messed up, probably due to Music Match importings. Iv never heard of a problem like that, its not really something you can blame on Apple. Besids, Apple don't usualy make applications for PC, iTunes is their only PC app.

[kirupa]

You forgot QuickTime :beam:

[Butters]

Oh yea of course. Doh!

[maxticket]

Off-topic, but I've hated Quicktime ever since they required it to play Myst.

Yes, the Zen rips off the iPod's design, which adds a bit of irony to Creative's name. But I use the Zen Xtra (I've finally realized after sorting through countless Zen models), and its buttons are on the side of the device, making it so much easier to adjust volume and skip tracks without taking it out of my pocket.

http://www.creative.com/iss/images/products/headers/prod9288_hdr_1_6_1.jpg

That's not the best image, but I was lazy.

I had a lot more difficulty with the volume and track control on the iPod. At first, I thought it a bit lame for the Zen to leave the front panel empty (which makes room for the battery), but after a while, having the volume buttons on one side and the track buttons on the other is nice, as long as you always keep the unit in the same position in your pocket.

One thing I can't stand is having to hunt for the artists' names. Even with the junky Rio player, I could choose the first letter of the artist, then find the artist more easily. With the Zen, I'm constantly scrolling down through 200+ artists to find the one I want. Plus, the jog dial doesn't actually spin. It just goes up, down, and pushes in. So you can't adjust the speed of the navigation, and the dial's response is super slow. I do enjoy iPod's interface much better.

[Mik3]

My friend has that one up there ^
He just got it and he hates it, he's selling it for one of those $150 3rd gen iPods.

[maxticket]

That's cool. It's obviously not for everyone.

[porpous2]

Geeze I'm surprised no one mentioned this.

iPod has the super cool clicky spinny wheel thing!
That's enough justification right there to pick one up.

zen touch ripped it, its the same type of thing cept not in a circle, plus the zen touch, well, can you make an apple ipods music come off it and onto someones computer... no, without programs like ephpod it wouldnt work. So... kinda yes... but every new update apple restricts these programs by adding new scripts, so, i like my zen touch to have that capability.... another thing(off subject kinda), the amazing creative mini looks cool, removable battery, more features, fm radio, voice recorder, fm radio recorder, calander, 1 gig more then the ipod mini, same price as the ipod mini, a little thicker, more batterylife......

back on subject...

did i say that you had to pay for a "new" ipod battery after a period of time, and you dont even get to keep your old one, you have to turn it in, and the new one you get is someone elses "old one" and what the heck, you have to PAY for that.... thats crap....

theres better things than the zen touch, but yes 24 hrs at highest quality mp3s, ive gotten it up to 26 at that same setting somehow... dono how :P hehe

[porpous2]

http://reviews.cnet.com/JetAudio_iAudio_M3__silver__20GB__with_cradle_/4505-6490_7-30842848.html?tag=topprods

anyone seen that, thats a kickass mp3 player, watch the video on cnet, its SMALLER THEN THE IPOD!!!!! wow, even has FM radio, plus theres no screen on the main body (could be bad but i think of it as cool) that way you can slip it into your pocket and it will feel good (Cause its smaller then the ipod!!!!!) it has AWSOME battery life, and you can use the TINY remote with a screen on it to controll it, that would be awsome to not even have to hold the whole device, just the tiny remote!!!! jeez i wish i had bought this.

[maxticket]

Wow, that looks nice. Interesting concept, separating the controls from the hard drive. I hope they'll make larger capacity players. Thanks for that link.

[[uber]]

hey porp... which mp3 do you want now... even throughyou already ordered one...

[Jeff Wheeler]

iTunes + iPod is the perfect combo, iv never had any problems with it on PC or Mac.

Your computer is messed up, probably due to Music Match importings. Iv never heard of a problem like that, its not really something you can blame on Apple. Besids, Apple don't usualy make applications for PC, iTunes is their only PC app.

Actually, I can.

My music may have been poorly organized into folders, but each song was properly tagged and there were no duplicates in the files themselves. It reorganized it and then I had to change for all other music applications (that last part is partly my fault, but I didn't know I was doing it).

I still like Winamp iPod support, even though I don't use it.

[porpous2]

hey porp... which mp3 do you want now... even throughyou already ordered one...
http://reviews.cnet.com/JetAudio_iAudio_M3__silver__20GB__with_cradle_/4505-6490_7-30842848.html?tag=topprods
this one, its a bit more expensive, but it has everything, the tinyness, i kina like the idea of the no screen on the main thing, but the tiny remote (watch the video on the link to see what im talking about) that way i can stick it in my pocket and only need to have the remote thingy out, plus it has fm radio, has the awsome space, is just AMAZINGLY tiny (smaller then the ipod) and you can use non itunes (itunes slows down computer) and you can take music off it to put it on another computer, unlike an ipod... which sucks *** for ipods. hehe..

[porpous2]

Wow, that looks nice. Interesting concept, separating the controls from the hard drive. I hope they'll make larger capacity players. Thanks for that link.
hehe anytime, the battery life on that one (the same one on the post above that i said) is AMAZING, check the creators websites.... theres one with smaller battery life, (which is still better than the ipod) and one with massive battery life (not as much as the zen touchs 24 hours)... but still amazing!

[Krilnon]

I didn't see any pics with the separate screen in it... Link?

[idoik]

screw the zen there is a nother creative called the NOMAD where 60gigs for 299 dollers so what now! whut!

[maxticket]

That's just the larger Zen, isn't it? My ex bought one of those. Only reason I didn't was because they were out of stock and I was impatient. It's got the same interface and features, just a larger hard drive. Unless you're talking about a different Nomad altogether?

[porpous2]

I didn't see any pics with the separate screen in it... Link? theres a movie... duhhh :P

[porpous2]

Off-topic, but I've hated Quicktime ever since they required it to play Myst.

Yes, the Zen rips off the iPod's design, which adds a bit of irony to Creative's name. But I use the Zen Xtra (I've finally realized after sorting through countless Zen models), and its buttons are on the side of the device, making it so much easier to adjust volume and skip tracks without taking it out of my pocket.

http://www.creative.com/iss/images/products/headers/prod9288_hdr_1_6_1.jpg

That's not the best image, but I was lazy.

I had a lot more difficulty with the volume and track control on the iPod. At first, I thought it a bit lame for the Zen to leave the front panel empty (which makes room for the battery), but after a while, having the volume buttons on one side and the track buttons on the other is nice, as long as you always keep the unit in the same position in your pocket.

One thing I can't stand is having to hunt for the artists' names. Even with the junky Rio player, I could choose the first letter of the artist, then find the artist more easily. With the Zen, I'm constantly scrolling down through 200+ artists to find the one I want. Plus, the jog dial doesn't actually spin. It just goes up, down, and pushes in. So you can't adjust the speed of the navigation, and the dial's response is super slow. I do enjoy iPod's interface much better.
thats alllll fixed in the zen touch

[krnmikel]

i like the ipod design much better but creative is a sound card company, so i would agree that it has better sound quality

[kirupa]

What is everyone's opinion on the Dell DJ? I read reviews for their latest version on CNET (http://reviews.cnet.com/Dell_DJ_20/4505-6490_7-31149174-2.html?tag=top)and Anandtech, and they were both pretty good. I am also a big fan of the (surprise) blue and gray colors:

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/sc/31149174-2-300-overview-1.gif

Most importantly for me, it plays WMA (which all my music is in), and allows me to transfer music directly from Windows Explorer using a 3rd-party program, so I'm not bound to one program for uploading music.

:nat:

[Thinker2501]

Just because Creative is a sound card company does not by definition mean that the Zen will have higher sound quality than the iPod. When it comes down to it no other MP3/AAC/WMA/whatever player has the list of features the iPod has. As it stands right now there just isn't a comparable product. Sure there are some "competitors" but they never have all the features of the iPod and they have lower prices by cutting features.

The thing that really sets the iPod above the others for me is the brilliant interface design. Both on the iPod itself and the free iTunes software, which is far and away the best MP3 software out there.

[rhine]

I <3 my iPod, but I'm not getting into a heated battle over which mp3 player is better. It's personal choice.

On the note of iPod software, I personally loathe iTunes. It's a cumbersome and bloated (read: ram-sucking) interface. For aristocrat who doesn't buy mp3s and probably won't appreciate iTunes integrated mp3-whoring store, I reccomend ephpod. (http://www.ephpod.com/)

Ephpod will let you connect to your ipod, use it as an external hdd, let you play your mp3s through your iPod on your pc, and do everything iTunes does, but better. And it's freeware.

[Krilnon]

I don't think it can do everything iTunes does...

[rhine]

..iTunes integrated mp3-whoring store..

I don't think it can do everything iTunes does...
You're right!

[Jeff Wheeler]

I could never own a Dell DJ. Especially being a soon to be mac owner.

[Mik3]

Why is Levi's, the company who invented Jeans, doing so bad right now? Two words: Brand names. That, I believe, is why none of the competition is doing superior. When people buy the iPod it's not about numbers and hardware. It's about the look, the customer support, opening the box for the first time, the obviouse extra mile Apple put into the product.

[rhine]

Why is Levi's, the company who invented Jeans, doing so bad right now? Two words: Brand names. That, I believe, is why none of the competition is doing superior. When people buy the iPod it's not about numbers and hardware. It's about the look, the customer support, opening the box for the first time, the obviouse extra mile Apple put into the product.
Yup. Good call. The packaging made me all hot and sweaty the first time I opened it.

[Butters]

lol, Apples packaging is really good actually, I don't throw mine away, I still have all my Apple boxes (3 iPod boxes, PowerBook 12", AirPort Extreme Card iLife 04, Final Cut Pro).

I threw all my ugly Dell boxes away though :P

[goldy2006]

I had an iPod, and then, out of the blew, it broke one month after the warranty period.

I replaced it with an iRiver ihp_120 (the old verion w/o the color screen) but I can not stand the navigation system on this mp3player, and I never use the radio or voice recorder.

In conclusion, I feel the new iPods look awesome, have a great navigation system, are easy to use, and are really small. Although the battery could be better...

[porpous2]

screw the zen there is a nother creative called the NOMAD where 60gigs for 299 dollers so what now! whut!

i guess... but its very very fugly... haha, they still updating the firmware for that?

[porpous2]

Just because Creative is a sound card company does not by definition mean that the Zen will have higher sound quality than the iPod. When it comes down to it no other MP3/AAC/WMA/whatever player has the list of features the iPod has. As it stands right now there just isn't a comparable product. Sure there are some "competitors" but they never have all the features of the iPod and they have lower prices by cutting features.

The thing that really sets the iPod above the others for me is the brilliant interface design. Both on the iPod itself and the free iTunes software, which is far and away the best MP3 software out there.
try playing a game with itunes on (like counterstrike) very very VERY slow.... ughhh... ipod, can you take your music off it onto another computer??? no but if you get those 3rd party programs, you can, but every new update, apple adds codes to make those not work... also the ipod battery problem, which sucks, a lot, go to apple and read the battery issue,plus many of the other things cost less or the same with the same price. For example, the creative mini- 5 gigs, 16 hours, REMOVABLE BATTERY!, FM RADIO!, FM RADIO RECORDER...... calander, all that crap, now tell me, how does this lack features, it has MORE, and DOUBLE the battery life, and a whole nother gig of space, the fm radio stuff, and its the same price, yet you say the competetors have less features? god, people, do some reasurch.

[porpous2]

i got my zen touch the other day, (my family has like 3 ipods, im the only one with non ipod) i can say, the media thingy.. (you know itunes) but for the zen, is sooooooo fugly.... the songs, per song, take about 1 secconed to import per song. it dosent slow down the computer like itunes does, but its not as smart and as well, organized as itunes. The zen touch is much smaller then all the pictures i saw online, its really really cool looking, much cooler then the ipod in my opinion. Plus theres a feature to change the start up screen... without a hack like in ipod.... the battery life kicks ***, i got mine to 25 hours without dying on normal settings.

[porpous2]

oh yeah the sound quality on the thing RULES, but the circle touch pad on the ipod, if only they ripped that from it, and didnt have a straight one, so nav.... well i say nav on this is 6.5-10 and nav on ipod is 9-10, thats pretty much the only thing i think is MUCH better on the ipod.

[kirupa]

porpous:

Do you work for Creative or own shares in its stock?

Does the edit button work (so you won't have to reply to your own posts) :beam:

j/k
I bought a Dell DJ 20GB yesterday, so I'll see how it is once I receive it next week. I went with free shipping, so no overnight delivery for me lol.

[porpous2]

porpous:

Do you work for Creative or own shares in its stock?

Does the edit button work (so you won't have to reply to your own posts) :beam:

j/k
I bought a Dell DJ 20GB yesterday, so I'll see how it is once I receive it next week. I went with free shipping, so no overnight delivery for me lol.
if i did, i would get the source, and spread it over so there could be firmware hacks, like ipod, plus id totally rip the scroll wheel from ipod not half rip it ... hehe. plus i said that i woulda bought the other thing with the removable thing, but its 100 bucks more and i didnt wanna pay for that.

[porpous2]

if i did, i would get the source, and spread it over so there could be firmware hacks, like ipod, plus id totally rip the scroll wheel from ipod not half rip it ... hehe. plus i said that i woulda bought the other thing with the removable thing, but its 100 bucks more and i didnt wanna pay for that.
time to reply to my own post again... take some pictures of it, is it good?...
oh yeah anyone here good at coding, i want a firmware hack for the zen touch soo bad! haha ;)