DMG Design - Critique

[paddy.]

This is the layout for a site I'm making for my cousin who is a furniture designer. He said he would pay me for it. I want some critique on the design as well as an idea of what to charge him. Please bear in mind that he is my cousin. He's also six foot two. And plays rugby. thank you.

DMG DESIGN (http://www.freewebs.com/showcasesite/dmg.html)

[DariusMonsef]

Does he design Gothic themed furniture? because that is the feel I got. The blacks, the crossed O's.

What style is his furniture. The site design should compliment that.

[paddy.]

It's modern/organic style furniture, i.e. smooth metal and wood in organic curves and stuff.
He chose the colours, fonts and designed the menu style himself. He wanted it mainly black and white. I did the curves and swooshes and stuff because that's what his furniture is like. He is the designer, I'm just the builder. The content is going to load in as separate swfs into a movieclip with some masked transitions.
I'd show you some pictures of his stuff but I have no idea how to get the pictures on my digital camera onto my PC.
How much do you think I should charge him, bearing in mind we're related.

[DariusMonsef]

If he is the one designing it, I would tell him his expertise is in furniture development and he should seek outside help for graphic design.

Family and business never turn out well. I hate doing any work for family as it's always a pain in the arse. Charge what you feel your time is worth.

[mlkedave]

how much time did u spend on it?

[simplistik]

Not feelin it.

1st doesn't give me the feel of a furniture site. Looks like it should be a band site, or some kind of cult, or something.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, as I've said for many sites I see here... bad choice of fonts.

Site shape is good and the tweening is good, but the buttons are really weak.

I think mainly you just don't get the feel of it being a furniture site. I dunno if I'd charge him much for it, if you touch it up maybe there will be more to charge for it.

[CanadianGuy]

Ummm....I'm not digging this design either. How about laying out the site in PS before beginning in flash?

I would probably ask $200.

[minimalistik]

I agree with simplistik, I think always with furniture sites they have vibrant light colors, not black to win their favour to purchase some furniture. I didnt like the font since it doesnt fit well for furniture and since its also used in Diablo. I think you could work on the buttons really better, they seem to be just using the oval shape tool and shape it. I like the tweening of course but having an oval shaped interface?

[Rasta666]

i agree with simp 2, just not the feel of a furinture site

[paddy.]

Selects site fla in My Documents and...

DELETED!
So no-one like this site at all? Wow. Erm, maybe I should just start again from scratch.
Here are the apparent problems with the site:
->The design
->The fonts
->The colour scheme
->The menu system
->The feel

Anything else wrong with it? The host (freewebs at the minute)?
The frame rate? Tweens are good though. That's a plus. So is the shape.
Looks like I need to take more of a designer stance rather than just a putter-together of ideas. Obviously my cousin's expertise is in furniture.

Well thanks for the critique guys. Looks like I've got alot of work to be getting on with.

[CanadianGuy]

Good for you Flash. In the end I think you and your cousin will be much happier.

[paddy.]

I think you could work on the buttons really better, they seem to be just using the oval shape tool and shape it. I like the tweening of course but having an oval shaped interface?
What else could I do with the buttons? They HAVE to stay that shape. That was the one thing my cousin was most determined to have. That curved interface with the oval buttons sliding down it. Gimme an idea for something. What I will do, however, is put the writing inside the ovals and see what that looks like.

[Disco-Stu]

CnC: Problem is, those ovals were aliased to crap. Try making them in photoshop or something before hand. Try to go with more textures too. Straight vector shapes without some image assistance is kinda crappy. Try putting some bevels, or something a little more complex around the borders. Your transitions are great, but the stuff you are working with is a little primative.

edit: 400 posts! woohoo!

[simplistik]

What else could I do with the buttons? They HAVE to stay that shape. That was the one thing my cousin was most determined to have. That curved interface with the oval buttons sliding down it. Gimme an idea for something. What I will do, however, is put the writing inside the ovals and see what that looks like.

Try replicating the texture of one of his most "popular" products?

Ummm... I dunno, I think we could all help you out if we knew what his stuff looked like. That way you could theme it correctly. Maybe peep some other furinature sites take a look at their elements and how they made them flow w/ their product.

[paddy.]

Unfortunately he only does one off commision work so he's unlikely to have a most popular product. He's also just starting out so he hasn't made a lot of stuff yet and he still hasn't sent me the photographs which were going to go on the site. Anyway I've started a completely different design which has nothing in common with the first one whatsoever except it's the same size. The shape, fonts, buttons, background, logo etc are all totally different and much more contemporary (IMO).

[paddy.]

Here is the 50% complete layout of the new site:
(The longer button on the left is in its "over" state.)

http://img62.photobucket.com/albums/v188/Fla5h/DMG2.jpg

So what do you think?

[paddy.]

Hey you guys! The site.^^^^^^ It's been redone. Guys?

[simplistik]

Dang man chill it was only 15min after your first post.

Anywho, IMO that doesn't work either. Design is better than the previous one but it still seems to be missing a lot. Still doesn't have the feel of a furniture site.

http://www.favouritewebsiteawards.com/

Go there and check out their commercial section, take a look at their furniture design sites. They have simplicity, elegancy, contemporary design looks. I'm not sayin that you need to be that professional, but it may lead you in what I think is the right direction. But like I said that IMO.

[paddy.]

That's all very pretty and nice but to make him something like that I would have to charge him like £1000+ and he can't pay that much just for the website. He has to buy materials and stuff too y'know. He's not made of money and I thought if I could make him something nice looking, that he liked, that would appeal to people and would only take me about 20-30hrs to make I could not rip him off or bankrupt him.

So anyway, when I get some pictures of his stuff I'll sepia them and maybe have a randomn background or something, of his furniture of course. That picture is really just filler which happens to look really cool. I think I'll show him both sites when he comes back from holidays and let him choose his favourite. I'll even show him what you guys said. If he picks the first one then (maybe) his loss, I'll charge him a little less for it or ask him to pick some better fonts and colours. It's his site not mine so I really ahve to make what he wants.

[Digitalosophy]

Flash:

Here's my opinion.

Your on the wrong track brother. I think you should stray away from the Flash interface and think about more of a corperate touch. Your site does not have to be in Flash to look good.

Think of a more professional design, as a furniture supply website should really be more on the corp. side of things.

[paddy.]

But he's not a company as such and he doesn't 'supply' furniture. He makes 'one off' custom pieces of contemporary furniture on a commision basis. I think the site should reflect the style of his furniture and not look very corporate. It is a personal site, not a company site. Also I think he is very keen to stress the point that he only makes one (set) of each design. The customer specifies what they want the item to look like/do and he creates it for them with his own stylish personal touch.

[XPeriment_22]

after checking out a few other furniture sites, i think urs ROCKS! heres one of the flash furniture sites i visitied. eyesore (http://www.nooobody.com/default.php)

[paddy.]

Ooh! That is nasty!! But some of them are incredibly stylish. Check out this site:

http://www.gaiamobili.com/

Then see the fourth post on this page. (My third)

[Disco-Stu]

Xperiment, that is pretty frightening. FG, I think you need to just calm down on the "designer designs". Creative art sites are different than consumer / advertising based sites. An all flash site is probobly a bad idea for that sort of thing. Try a 50/50 combo, and keep it clean, and professional looking. Make use of stock photos of people, and take some good perspective images of the furniture. Apply those to the design somehow.

[CanadianGuy]

I agree with disco stu. I'd also like to add that creating all flash sites can be bad for business if you're trying to drive traffic, which most everyone is. hehe

On another note, when you're new to the industry money should be the last thing on your mind. Put lots of effort into every piece you create and eventually you'll end up with an amazing portfolio and surprise! You'll also be creating much better work from all of the practice.

[paddy.]

Well believe it or not my web design started in January of this year with Flash MX 2004 Pro so I have no experience working with html or any other stuff. I don't know how to make a 50/50 site as D-S suggested so I kind of have to use all flash. Anyway, since he isn't having any online commerce why is all-flash bad for business? I have Dreamweaver MX but I find it hard to use.

[simplistik]

Well believe it or not my web design started in January of this year with Flash MX 2004 Pro so I have no experience working with html or any other stuff. I don't know how to make a 50/50 site as D-S suggested so I kind of have to use all flash. Anyway, since he isn't having any online commerce why is all-flash bad for business? I have Dreamweaver MX but I find it hard to use.


Eewwww tryin to run b4 you can walk. You may need to take a step back.

You also said you have to make something that he wants or the client wants or w/e.

I have many clients, and although they give me a direction it's really in my hands on what is presented to them and what the final adoption looks like. Unless they are telling you exactly what he wants and exactly where he wasn't everything to go then you have complete creative freedom. And from the looks of the two different styles, it looks like you do.

As for charging like 1000EU or w/e (I dunno how that translates in $). I dunno if you have enough caliber of design to do that anywho, so I think if you put your best foot forward and try something more elaborate then you'll be more pleased w/ it in the end. I some instances time = money but I dunno if that should be your focus.

[paddy.]

On the first site he told me exactly where to put everything. He sat beside me for about 70% of it's construction. The second one is nothing to do with him he hasn't and might never see it. He's on holiday in France at the moment so I can't talk to him much.

About the site building, not knowing html, what I said isn't strictly true. I have built quite a few working sites in Dreamweaver. What I should have said is that I never made any of them live. I didn't have webspace, 'cept AOL but how anyone can be bothered with AOL I don't know. In January I dsicovered FreeWebs.com and I was able to post a site Imade for my band on it. That was the first entire site I ever made in Flash. However, I can't 'write' html by hand. I need Dreamweaver or something similar. The reason I don't really use Dreamweaver is that I often can't have the layout I desire in Dreamweaver. Flash gives so much more 'creative freedom'.

I'll give Dreamweaver a go but I don't think he'll like what comes out. He was pretty chuffed with the first site that everyone else hated so much, and don't say he hasn't got taste because he used to do alot of art and it was amazingly stylish and good (great colours, shapes and ability), like his furniture.

[Disco-Stu]

I'd try putting something together in Photoshop first, then transposing your design into dreamweaver. You have to remember the rules of HTML though. Even if you ever want to be good in flash, you have to learn a decent amount of HTML. I'm not sure if I could build an entire massive site out of notepad again or not, but I still have knowledge of it. Don't be intimidated by the limits of a program. I suggest reading up a bit on the mechanics and behaviour of HTML (www.webmonkey.com is pretty nice), and see what you can do, and then do a design up in PS.

You don't have to do it all in HTML either though. If you think his business would benefit from an all flash site, then by all means go ahead. I would DEFINITLY make more of your interfaces in photoshop, and put them in flash. Unless you are a flash HaX0r, going with bland vector shapes for a menu sucks. Try out that new "glass button" tutorial on kirupa.com or something. :D

And we're not trying to cut you down man. We're just a bunch of guys (and girls) on the internet who are offering our constructive criticism. :D We still love you man.

[slumgutt]

First site:
Well, not to be rude - just honest: The buttons heavily needs replacement! It really doesn't look like a furniture site! But I do not doubt your abilities as a designer, I just think your limitations are crap. You've got to go with your own design ideas, and not let inexperienced people tell you what to do! He's got the talent in making furniture or what ever, so tell him/her YOU are the designer - he should but off on the buttons. Make the site as you want it to be, and I'll bet he'll be much more pleased with it! Yeah...

New site:
Looks a lot better:)

[paddy.]

I think I'm gonna go with a slightly more more corporate, but very stylised look. Something a little like that site I put the link to. Starting from scratch btw. Thanks for the crits guys I never meant to sound angry but sometimes it's difficult not too when you put a lot of work into something and then people tell you that it isn't right or something y'know. Thanx again and I'll post the new(est) site up again when I get more done.

-Paddy:D