how much is to design a web site in flash how much is a regular price

[Audrius]

how much is to design a web site in flash how much is a regular price. just curious

[Jubba]

Do you mean:

"How much should I charge for a Flash site?"

if so, then the answer is:

"It depends."

Whether or not you are good. Whether or not you are only using Flash, if you use some backend scripting and other stuff then you can charge more. I try to make it so that my clients can update their sites on their own, that way I charge more money up front. I charge pretty low, 250-500. But I don't really use Flash that much anymore. I have been using PHP, XML, and databases to make my sites dynamically upgradeable...

[SureShot]

Dude, there are way to many variables there :)

How big is the site, what does it include?

.... more details.

Also, there are a ton of answers to this kind of question, just do a search of the forums with the search button in the uppper right

[SureShot]

Damn you Jubba - you are too quick for me! :P

[sheep]

if you have enough confidence in your voice, you can sell them for thousands.

[Jubba]

lol Sheep! Nice footer... :P :trout:

Yeah. This isn't a static thing that can be answered. If it is one of your first sites and there isn't much to it, then I would say about 75-100. How much time did you put into it? Say you put 10 hours into making it. Since you aren't that well known yet, then you would say you want 7.5 per hour. 7.5*10 = 75. Do it like that instead of a lump sum...

[sheep]

i disagree,.. i think 100 dollars is very weak. if you have to be pitching with for a 100 dollar site, you havent taken the time to build some fake websites for fake clients.. if you had 5 fake sites that showed your quality of work, there is no reason you couldnt nab your first site at 500.

the part of webdesign that is stressful, is when you have 5 days worth of money,but you need 10 days to do the site as good as you want to.. just make sure when pitching your prices,that you get enough money to be able to let you be creative and make it your best site - because if you dont, you wont be able raise your prices and you'll get suckered at 500 bucks a site for awhile..

always research local webcompanies prices so that you can say with full confidence that your competition charges 2,000 so your saving 70% by taking a calculated risk with the new guy .


100 bucks is not enough money to inspire you to create your best work.. you may aswell just create fake sites that you have full artistic lisence with

[Jubba]

It all depends on experience tho. If the site is small and simple, and you are new (ie no experience or at least none to show) then they are not going to pay you 500. I know I wouldn't. If the site is huge and it requires a lot of work then yes try to get as much out of them as possible. Have them make an offer and then haggle. I started out with small sites and I charged very low. Got me quite a few clients and I didn't put too much time into it. Now my clients are getting larger, and I can start charging more...

[sheep]

i did the same, only i we made a couple fake sites and began at 500, 2nd site at 750 and now do not begin for less than 1,000.

its not about experience, its about your portfolio and how much confidence you have during the contract negotiation.

[Jubba]

portfolio. That is what i meant by experience. How much you have to show and the quality of your work. If you have none then you can't charge too much. And if this person is asking how much to charge, then they probably don't have much of a portfolio.

[DDD]

Are you saying 100 bucks an hour? Or just 100 bucks? I would not do a splash page for 100bucks, If you have your prices to low you will put yourself in a very peculiar situation. SOme people believe that you get what you pay for. a 100 buck site is going to be just that a 100 buck site. Your price also speaks to your competence level and confidence. If someone was trying to sell you a car there comes a price range that would ultimately make the seller seem foolish and you would not take them seriously. Like if I were trying to sell you a 1999 BMW for 1,500.00 bucks you would not believe me. Same thing with your web prices if it is too low they will not have faith that their site will be as good as it can be. By all means be competitive with your prices but dont low ball yourself. I hover my prices anywhere from 30 bucks an hour to 75 bucks. And definitely research the competition.

[Jubba]

refer to my last post.

When I was charging 100 people knew the quality of my work and my competence level. I just needed money so I charged very low. I know 100 is low, but if you don't have an extensive portfolio with proof to back up your abilities then you are not going to get off by charging 1000 for a site. It doesn't work that way. Also, it depends on your client and how much they can pay. If it just a personal site, then they aren't going to give you 500. But if it is a company with money then yes you probably could get away with 500 or so.

You guys are still thinking like experienced developers. You have a portfolio. You have been doing this for a while. You have to think like someone who is just starting out and trying to get their a$s in the door

[sheep]

right, well thats why i said what i said about fake sites..


why waste your timing tracking down a 100 dollar client and have to build a website to his standards and ideals.. what if the guys colours are pink and yellow or something.. You have to go use that as "experience" on your next pitch. what if he runs an accounting company and wants a boring HTML site,... Thats great experience....


if you just made up some fake sites for fake clients the very best you possible can and using your own creative resources with no restrictions from a small minded shop owner (if you dont have a website by now in 2003, your probably not a brilliant businessman/woman) ,

Why not make 3 cool sites that you know will impress whoever you show - ...??

[Jubba]

I definately agree that is a good idea, and as soon as I get my domain, I was planning on making fake sites, but I am taking the fact that this person is asking us about the price to mean that they are newer and they don't really know what they are doing, in the sense that they don't have any fake sites made or anything like that.

If they had fake sites made and they were experienced then they wouldn't be asking this quesiton.

[sheep]

jubba,

we have worked 16 hour days for 9 months. we ARE trying to get our foot in the door.. We have also been living off of our business since day one, so the severity of needing a good client has always been with us - no real safety net.. things are just finally beginning to roll now, but its still scary sometimes, because we havent built a safety net yet...

but if you start charging 100 bucks, - your never going to get ahead.

there are a couple advantages of this industry...

If people DONT have a website already, they really dont know anything about it - and if you are the first person they have talked to - everything you say is taken as truth. Im not implying lying to them - but just being smart about what you say

find the most expensive local competition & tell your client what they charge.. the client will probably check this out, but probably wont go looking for others to verify.. one is enough (AS LONG AS YOU HAVE SPOKEN IN CONFIDENCE)

this way, your 500 bucks looks great at 75% - 90% off...

[DDD]

Moral of the Story: Make some sites for yourself or make up topics. This is what I did and sounds like others have. My experience is 100 buck clients are usually the largest headaches. Or if you have the time and patience go all out on your 100 buck clients. Just tell them to keep the price confidential. Some people may actually contact people on your portfolio prior to hiring you. I have had that happen.

[splinx]

I have to agree with Sheep here - the short and sweet mantra is:

Don't sell yourself short. Doing work on the cheap drives down prices for all of us.

sp

[sheep]

definatley. people who are cheap on the money cause the most problems.. they are so worried about getting their moenys worth they turn into *******s.

[Jubba]

I understand that you are running a business. I am not. I am a student. I do what I do in my free time. I create these sites for fun, and I make money off of them. I am studying archaeology. I am not a CS major. I am merely learning these languages and skills because I want to, beacuse I like to. I like doing this. Web development is actually my safety net for my future. Because it is something that I can fall back on. I can charge lower because I don't run a business doing this. I make the sites and people pay me. I know that I am good at what I do and that I could charge much higher for the sites that I make, but I don't. Most of my clients are people that I am familiar with and I make their sites as favors. Any money i get from these sites is extra.

If the person who asked this question is running a business and he has a portfolio base, then yeah, go ahead and charge 500. Hell if you are good charge 1000. But if you have no base, and this is your first real client and they don't want a lot out of their site, then you are never going to get away with 500. Regardless if they are completely computer illiterate, they will not pay up 500 beans w/o some proof of your abilities.

I charge low because I can. If I am charging 250, and you are charging 500 and we can both deliver the same thing and we both have the same ablilities... then client will most likely go with the cheaper price.

[Jubba]

Well, yeah. I am not disagreeing with anyone here. I am just tyring to make you see my point of view.

POV:

If you don't have a portfolio, then people aren't going to pay a lot for a site.

That was all I was trying to get at. :)

[sheep]

jubba, youve got a lot to learn about money my friend. from this last post it seems as though you have restated your innitial opinion and not even listened at all... the advice given to you is sound,..


especially the part about driving down the costs for everyone else. Everytime you do a site for 250.00 3 other people goto a company and say, This guy got it for 250, i want it for 250...

and if you are a student, i hope its NOT business :sigh: obviously you are paying to goto school - and webdesign is just creating you extra money.. Why wouldnt you want MORE extra money? Graduate school with zero debt..?... i dunno..

[DDD]

Jubba this is true.......You just stay out of my neck of the woods :angry:

The good thing about this business is that word of mouth will get you farther than just a cheap trick. If you can afford to do it cheaply cool. I to have another job so I am Clark Kent by day a web developer/programmer by night, but I do recognize my value and wish to be paid accordingly. Service the clients you have with the uttmost respect and you will not have that many problems from the recreational designer. But there is enough of the pie to go around I believe.

very well put sheep

[Jubba]

Originally posted by sheep
jubba, youve got a lot to learn about money my friend.
No, actually I don't. I know all there is to know about money. I know that my family doesn't have any of it. I know that I need as much as possible so that I can return to school next year. I know that this summer I will need to work 3, 45 hr/week, jobs just to come back to school. My family is poor. I am lucky that I have come this far. I charge as much as my clients can pay. My clients are small-time, so I have to charge lower. You do one site for 500, I do 1 site for 100. That 100 dollars to me is groceries for the week. Your 500 gets split between you and whoever works with you. I know that I can charge more, because of my capabilities. The only problem is that I have trouble finding larger clients. I am from an area where no one needs a website. I do local small-time bands. I am usually friends with someone in the band so I charge low because they are going to college too and they need their money just like I need mine.

I don't need a lesson in money management my friend. I just need money period, and I will do whatever is necessary to take the burden off of my parents.

[sheep]

well instead of walking 10 miles to work uphill in knee deep snow both ways,.. Lol,... maybe listen and ask some more questions and get some honest advice from people who are living it and doing it.

THe website is just the product that must live up to the expectations presented at the Sale.... Its all about the Sale that first 5 minute conversation and just how much confidence you had - controlled them and explained the world of webdesign to them like you would a child,.. make em comfy with your charm and tell them exactly how much you need while looking right in the eye. They will pay you.

im not trying to insult, im trying to help. can i see your work?

[DDD]

*breaks out the extinguisher to fight the flame*

Jubba you are 100% correct, you have to do what you have to do. I was in college too but I had a hoop scholarship but I do know how hard it is. I too tailor my prices to fit the client. BUt when the time comes for your big strike do yourself and us a favor dont build a portal with a content management system and flash games for $100 bucks. Do we have a deal?

You will have quite an extensive portfolio when the time comes, SO I REPEAT STAY OUT OF MY NECK OF THE WOODS!!!!
me = :bad: +:angry: = u :!: :run:

hahhahahaha

[Jubba]

none of my work is really posted. Most of my clients (being 'friends') have been jerking me around since day one. A simple Flash site that I created 8 months ago

www.livetoskateboard.com

The upcoming version 2.0 of that site (none Flash)

www.livetoskateboard.com/NoFlash

Something that my friends wanted:

www.livetoskateboard.com/gte

(they are all very simple sites, nothing major. They need to updated, but I refuse to do any more work on them, until they give me the money they owe me. Like I said, they are my friends and they have jerking me around. The last one needs to get their own domain. But they are waiting until they finalize the name of their band. :-\)

I am in the process of creating another site that isn't posted yet. Complete database driven. And the guy is a friend of mine so I'm only charging 250.

I am listening to your advice, but all the advice that you are giving, I already know. I know that more should be charged and I know the possible ramifications of not charging more. I am getting by with what I am doing now. Once I have these sites finalized and I have a real portfolio under my belt, then I will begin charging more.

[sheep]

youve got really nice work,

definatley passable at 500 if not 750.. you are wasting your time with friends man - we ALL go through that one. Your friends love to get work for free, and since they know you - they have no problem demanding more and more and more work. My advice on that one, finish these sites and dont do any more friends sites period..

[Jubba]

I plan on it. :) And don't lie, my work is crap. I know its crap. Its nothing compared to what I am capable of if I could devote my time to it, but I have to do my school work first.

That Flash site is absolute crap. I need to redo that at some point. The Requiem Skateboards site was done for free. Basically because its my friends company and we are partners in that. I make the websites and I contact distributors and he puts money into the product. I use his domain for all my testing and stuff because I can't afford my own domain right now.

Oh well...

At least I still have my health *cough*cough**cough*cough**cough*cough*

[splinx]

Jubba,

I admire your determination and talent. I believe your work is worth much more than your're getting, but at least you are getting something. Don 't forget to include the tutorials you've done in your portfolio.

In my personal experience, when I've been jerked around, it's always been the "el cheapo" type of gig. When dealing with unknown or new clients, it's probably a good idea to ask for some money up front on the first project. I've been burnt a few times too. Another dangerous situation for freelancers is a project where there are a number of different concerns (individuals and/or companies) involved with whom you've never dealt (ie, gotten paid) in the past. At the end of the day, everybody points at everybody else, and you (actually I) end up holding the (empty) bag.

sp

[Jubba]

I make sure to get some form of contact information. Phone or Address. If they don't pay up, I call or show up with a bat. :)

[splinx]

I find vampire bats work better than fruit bats.

Seriously though, contact info still won't get you paid. I had a client once who was a lying sack of, well, fruit bats.

"Oh, sure," she'd say, "drop down after one and the check will be waiting for you."

Of course, "after one," there was never a check, and she was "out of the office." Finally, I did manage to get "partial payment" from this witch (still amounted to several hundred $), but of course, the check bounced. Next stop, courthouse. Eventually got my judgement against her, but by then she'd filed bankruptcy, so I was out not only the dough (over $1000), but also the time, energy and aggravation of all the paperwork and legal foo foo. Within a year, she was back in business under another name.

sp

[Jubba]

Yeah fruit bats are useless. That is the fear I have of unknown clients. At least with my friends, I know where they live. I am bigger than them, and I know I will get my money. The main problem is that I want them to get their domain, so I can start doing the real work, but they keep jumping around...

[DDD]

you should show up with :trout:

Rule number one in business is never deal with friends and family. I learned that very quick. They will take kindnes for weakness everytime. If you do be sure to separate the 2. business is business and friendship is friendship. If they are friends or family they should understand.

funny how this thread turned into everyone preach to Jubba.