PC vs Mac & IE vs Netscape

[Cello]

Here's a thing. One of my roles is to sit on a web strategy panel for a global company producing a product that every household requires.

Reviewing thier website stats for April I note the following information about users:

OS
Windows - 92.4%
Mac - 5.4%
Unknown - 1.5%
Linux - 0.7%

Browser
IE - 94.2%
Netscape - 2.7%
Unknown - 1.7%
Safari - 1%
Opera - 0.4%

This information is consistent for each month for the last 3 years (between the majors).

Given this information, why should we as designers spend a disproportionate amount of time (and money) ensuring compliance with what the market has determined are minority tools.

I should add that I started out on Mac but now use a PC - I love em both! I am not seeking views on which is best - I'm looking forward to hearing views about the stats above :)

[Lou_Sifffer]

even though that is a small section of society, how do you know that that small section is not responsible for 50% of your gross revenue?

numbers can be skewed a lot of ways, but without knowing who spent what, while surfing where on who, then the numbers are just there to look pretty.

Now match those OS/browsers to amount of money spent with your client, then you may have something to take some action.

[m_andrews808]

Thats a very good question. The company I work for simply doesn't cater for these minority users, althought the more sites out there with 'Recommended: Internet Explorer' stamped all over them the harder it will be for any other browser to shake Microsoft's domincance.

The only thing that springs to mind at the moment is that you can't tell what'll happen in the future, Microsoft may crumble due to customer disatisfaction and Macs and Netscape may rule the roost in which case companies that have always been good to the others may find they have a competative edge simply through reputation.

The chances of that happening aren't possible to summate but I'd say there were very slim. Still not justification for spending ages making software/sites compatible on every platform from here to timbuktoo...

[λ]

Netscape will never rule the roost. Mozilla might do.

I think that Microsoft losing a large amount of control over the market is very possible - Longhorn isn't coming out till 2006, so I think that more people will start to switch to alternatives like Linux and Mozilla Firefox.

[RelandR]

Given this information, why should we as designers spend a disproportionate amount of time (and money) ensuring compliance with what the market has determined are minority tools.


... it's not as hard as all that. To do otherwise is flat out as rude as stopping customers at the front door and allowing them access only if they wear a certain style of glasses (read lou's take - you never know who you're rejecting)

.. it's just good form to be open for sake of principle

:bad:

[Cello]

Good points made so far - and in principal, RelandR, I agree.

Let's develop the matter further - given that it appears prudent from a designer/supplier point of view to facilitate maximum accessability to a website, why is no time WHATSOEVER (in my experience) spent on making sites accessible to the disabled - as required in the UK by the Disability Discrimination Act, 1995?

[Lou_Sifffer]

because we, as designers, never hear from those people.

they simply go somewhere else, where it is accessible.

It's kinda like the customer who will never cross your door, even though you never really did anything wrong, even if your prices are lower, and customer service is better, simply because you have a step in front of your door, and the guy down the road doesn't.

You never hear that the reason he patronizes the guy down the road, because the customer does not complain. It is against his nature to complain, especially when he can find what he needs fairly close.

[Kitiara]

At Churchill, we have similar statistics, and have done for at least the two years that I've been there. But we still have to design for 800 x 600 resolution, catering from IE / Netscape 4 upwards. We have to be as compatible with as many browsers and OS's as is humanley possible.

But of course we do run into huge problems with 4.0... :sure:

(Actually Cello, wrt the accessability issue, we've recently had an RNIB audit on our site, to help make it better for blind users. Quite why we're selling them car insurance, I don't know, but we are trying to make the effort. :) )

[Cello]

Kit - that's interesting. In your view is this action re the blind to do with accessability (given the slight conflict of being able to drive and being blind ;) ) or an action to prevent litigation?

[RelandR]

fairly broad act there..
perhaps most ppl take this to mean that an entire revamp is needed to comply,
if I understand the act correctly, one doesn't need to necessarily change their design (allthough this is somewhat implied) but merely provide fair access to the core services provided which is easliy accomplished by creating an alt site for the text-readers crowd...pretty much a word doc with html tags..
a simple 'entrance page' (or prominent link) can direct users to their respective detinations .

building a ramp should not have to mean ripping out the stairs

...or is there a section I missed that requires all visitors to access @ the same point ?

[Lou_Sifffer]

it was an analogy RR...

you know what I mean. If you don't have a ramp in the front, and the guy next door does, the guy who needs the ramp will not look for the back door to use a ramp, when the ramp next door enables you to pass thru, without doing anything.

ease of use usually precludes amount of access points, in my experience anyway.

[DDD]

My belief is that you always swing low. Meaning that while netscape users are only 2%, they may account for a large percentage of revenue if 95% of that 2% buys your goods. SOmetimes these numbers can be misleading and I normally do a case study for my high profile clients who need a profile for the ideal consumer. That consumer may more than likely use a MAC and have IE 5.5. Making that 2% all the more important.

Your numbers are important, but dont take them at face value, see how they relate to other figures. We have Web Trends which is awesome it show a bunch of other stats for a visitor visiting the site.

I dont think IE will ever give up its 90%+ that is juts too wide of a margin. But these up and coming browsers are killing me. Try getting something to work on WebTV, now that is a killer. But we do need to spend more time on accessibility. I have seen many nice sites that absolutely suck when you view on diff browser OS combination.

[Kitiara]

Kit - that's interesting. In your view is this action re the blind to do with accessability (given the slight conflict of being able to drive and being blind ;) ) or an action to prevent litigation? I think we're looking at it from the point of view that we sell home, pet, travel insurance etc as well, so whilst car insurance might not be appropriate, other stuff will. That and to avoid litigation. ;)

As far as the eCommerce department are concerned, it's all about staying one step ahead of the competition (ie: Direct Line) and having something to boast about to the board of Directors.

Sad really, that keeping users happy appears to be a secondary consideration... :sure:

[DDD]

Speaking of disabilities. If you are in the States, you need to know something about the A.D.A (Americans with Disabilities Act). People can literally sue you if your site is not accessible and you provide a service to the public. I did a few sites for a County Government and they sent me to classes on the stuff since they had been sue because of this.

[Lou_Sifffer]

RussianBeer is an "expert" on this matter as well.

[λ]

great site for accessibility: http://diveintoaccessibility.org :)

[RelandR]

it was an analogy RR...

mine was as well (an analogy that is) just a co-inky-dink that we both used stairs ...it was not a play on yours but rather I was trying to illustrate that in order to accomidate those that need the 'ramp' that the stairs need not be scrapped.

meaning that rather than alter the access for one group for sake of the other, simply create the alternative paralell to it

[Starpromo]

Finally something interesting to read on Kirupa... I have enjoyed this post so far, and its got me thinking.

Thanks,
Star*

[G]

Forget Netscape and IE what about Mozilla? and I think PC's will always be more common ncos there so more versatile...I built my PC from selected componenets but you can't do that with a Mac.

[SureShot]

Finally something interesting to read on Kirupa...
Star*


I think you need to look around more ;) There is always something interesting happening here!

[radioxromance]

I usually find the interesting thigns boil down to two guys making huge posts I jsut don't have the time or patience to read, and it all goes over my head.

[DDD]

I usually find the interesting thigns boil down to two guys making huge posts I jsut don't have the time or patience to read, and it all goes over my head.

sheeeesh....the youth of America today...

[radioxromance]

haha yah, I know, it's sad... it's just a certain point when I lose interest... at least I'm not watching tv! Now lemme get back to the friends thread... ;)