The Problem with Users

[BlueBoots]

This is something that, shockingly, only occurred to me in recent weeks. And it was only after visiting Mental Concept Productions that I realised how important this issue is.

Your average joe, run o the mill, has never touched a proper computer (Or program, for that matter) will never completely understand what you, or I, or any game developer in general, do. And we miss the mark every single time.
Lemme break it down to ya,

I recently created a demo version of an online RPG in Flash. To me, it was 6 weeks of blood sweat and tears, from miniscule syntax errors that took me 3 hours to find, to drawing and re-drawing just the **** guides for the perspective drawing. When it came to the last night before the big presentation (For my class, family friends and EEK industry reps) I took one last look at the final product, and I was mortified.

To our average joe (As described above) I'd spent 6 weeks making a walk through with only 5 places to go. To our user, you could choose between 3 different hand (cursor) colours. You could open and close a window with stuff in it. You could look at a pretty scroll-like map which showed an icon. If the user goes to a new room, the icon slides to the next one. Pretty. A little clock at the bottom has a little lady bird go round. A leaf has it's colour change. Birdies twitch.

AHH! To me, it's a whole different story. From externally loading .swfs combined into one preloader, 4 different arrays for each part of the inventory, scripts for counters and clocks and map placement recognition, the database, all that PHP and MySQL...
And that's just the back back end.

I was lucky, I worked with tutors who understood this issue, and they geared my presentation up for both industry and parental units. (Like explaining the more technical terms in simple English without being patronising, and how to make the whole thing seem impressive and difficult without talking about the code, which to most people is dull! Stupid people...)
/endRant


I guess what I'm trying to say is what we produce and what they see needs to be weighed up evenly. The average joe won't care if you can do a fantastic, 16 page long code to make a 3D particle effect, if all he sees is a bunch of dots on the screen. If you try and explain the code to him, 9 times out of 10 he'll close the site window and go somewhere else.

I'm not saying scrap the experiments, or that "style of substance" (gag) is the way to go; but I do think there is a time and a place. If you dum something down for the average user, they'll know it. They don't want to be patronised, just like n00bs. (C'mon, we were all one once) They just want to know what it does, and maybe why. How isn't up there.
Not for Mr. Joe Average.

[BlueBoots]

I just re-read this, and it feels really negative. I don't mean it to be!
I'm a very up-beat person usually, so it's kinda odd... I just think it's something very important that needs to be taken into consideration when making (And especially) designing a game. Will the time and energy you spend on it be shown in the work???
Is it worth it?

PS
Dam is a swear word??? :)

[SeiferTim]

Wizards First Rule: People are Stupid.
They really only care about 2 things: Is it fun/cool/pretty and can they figure it out without too much thinking.
Have you seen the list of people in the credits to make a game? Look at FFVIII, I never really liked that game, it sucked. I played it once. But the credits took like 15 minutes to go by, and I guarantee that it took a good year, more like 2 or 3 to finish the game, and in the end, all I can think about was: "It was okay..." They must have spent thousands, and thousands, if not millions of dollars in the time it took from concept to production, to shipping, PR, and sales... but when it comes down to it, it wasn't all that great even! Where as its higly possible that a game that took half the time, less people, and less resources would be considered much better, mostly because the people who play it, the EU, only care about the end product, and those 2 things. Since I've started working on my RPG, I can appreciate the time and effort that game developers put into their products, and I know what I have to look forward too... :ne:
Heh heh. Good luck :D Just remember, when your a game developer, your're like the Wizard of Oz, and no one pays attention to the guy (or gal) behind the curtain! :P

[flash4food]

yeah, BTW have u noticed when developing something (mostly games) u can spend hours playing ur own game and see it perfectly while people outside it find bugs in less than 5 minutes(has happened to me, at least), i think this is because they have a very different perspective to the game, and that is also why game testers are needed

[SeiferTim]

Yeah, Testers are key. They see things that you miss, simply because, subconsiously, you didn't think you should/could do something, you don't code in something to prevent it, or fix it if it happens, and someone else will think: "Why can't I do this?" and then there's a huge bug! :P

[BlueBoots]

I completely agree with all the above, but it's not just about games. It's also about image.
I've seen so many web design company sites with whole sections dedicated to how much code they know, what crazy new experiments they've developed in Flash and all sorts. People won't care! That stuff is great on a personal site, where like-minded individuals will be blown away by it all, as they can somehow comprehend it all.
But if you're selling a design firm, all people want to see is the design, other nicely done websites and a vast portfolio. Geeks who get the code don't need to hire you!
But I'm not saying stop it, I'm saying do it in a manner everyone can appreciate; like letting them control your code. Have the code integrated into your design if you're that proud of it. One very nice example was a '3D' text mc of the code; the code was actually stringed into the dynamic text where it could be manipulated by the user, allowing them to rotate it, expand it, change the colour of it and all sorts.

Now that's a solution.

[SeiferTim]

I had an idea awhile back, which I was thinking about putting into my website, when I ever get a chance to re-make it...
I was thinking about posting a huge, long article that explains, in semi-detail, what web-design/programming entails. So that a possible client would read it, see what it takes, and then go: "....yeah.... I think I'd rather have someone else do it...."
Like, I would explain a little about HTML, and in fact encourage the client to learn about it, pick up a book, or open up the Source for the web-page, and see what it looks like, and then explain the process of developing graphics, and Flash, so that they get an idea of what goes into it, and perhaps they'd feel a little more inclined to pay a decent price for the work. Like, if you go to buy a car, you may think that one price is way too high, but if you saw the plan build the car, and see what goes into the production, and see what it takes for the designer to design it, you may say: "Well, yeah, now I see that it's not all that overpriced", or whatever... does anyone else think it would be a good idea to do this?

[Zak]

Ya i totally agree, 5 years ago I would play flash games online and be like "oh that was boring." but now if I were to go back to that same game i would have an understanding of what that person did, even if it seemed kinda ****ty back then. and that is how the, well should we say, 'unenlightend' ones act.

- Just some thoughts ;)

[BlueBoots]

Originally posted by SeiferTim
I had an idea awhile back,
I was thinking about posting a huge, long article that explains, in semi-detail, what web-design/programming entails. does anyone else think it would be a good idea to do this?

No! (she says with a smile on her face) I'm sorry babe, but they hate it. You'll spend a day or two on writing in and no one will read it, except people like me; who don't need to read it but are just nosy.
To them it seems patronising. Of the few clients I've worked with I can sum it up into 3 different types:

MIW (make it work, "mew")
These guys just want the stuff to happen, they don't care how or why. I've been amazed at how much these people want for how little, most seem to be pretty tight on the purse strings. (Then again, you can get the flip-side of "whatever for whatever" which is a dream most never see come true...)

To really sterotype them, they'll be individuals or small groups (Sports clubs etc) that have a pre-existing website that's bust, or they want some new feature etc. Not usually to interested in 'design'

GMC (Give Me Control, 'gimmick' or 'gimm*erm um cough cough*)
These are the GUI lovers, they want 'control' without too much understanding, they can be pretty good about nodding and smiling. Most often they only want to pay you once, so they can be pretty scrimpy. They want you to set them up with a no-fuss website, that they or someone else can change easy as pie, without having to pay you anymore or anything.

In a box: These guys want you to do something they can't do, but usually they won't admit it. They'll be the boss/manager of a small firm or something that they've been running for an age, and hate to be patronised in front of their 'lessers'.

LMGTS (Let me get this straight, "LemGuts")
I love these guys. Sometimes...
They want to know about each and every little bit, often phoning at random hours of the night to ask if ... is possible? And could you have it done by monday? No serriously, these guys are usually pretty good, but like both groups above they can be pretty varied, from guys who wanna know this stuff for themselves (Like you're some weird mentor dude/ette) or like the aforementioned bosses who need absolute control. LemGutsies are usually more common if you're working one on one with a client, or like if you're working with an in house design department or something.
They can sap a lot of your time, mind you...




At the end of the day, how much you've put into something should be easily discerned by what comes out.

[SeiferTim]

You should try adding the tags to your first post above... :D You'll like it...

[Johnny64]

Originally posted by SeiferTim
You should try adding the tags to your first post above... :D You'll like it...

thats if he use IE. :P it doesn't work in most other browsers :(

[BlueBoots]

Originally posted by Master64
thats if
She use IE. :P it doesn't work in most other browsers :(

:D Tee he he...

I use IE 5+ or Safari while working, Mozzie and IE at home...

But this is totally off topic, and now I'm in a happier mood (I've stopped listening to Radiohead...) let's focus on the good things about users; and now that we know they're thick as planks, how we can use our new found powers for good, not evil...

Anyone got any ideas? I have some up my sleeve but I'd like to hear about your experiences in the industry too, how people have dealt with the Gimm*icks and the Lemgutsies of their time...

[SeiferTim]

[sound of many crickets in the night]

[BlueBoots]

Here's a meanie one:

If they don't care how or why it works, then they don't need to know what you're really doing behind the scenes. If they find all your psuedo scripting talk hugely impressive, charge them double. Tell them that something which you know will only take you an hour to code, takes two hours. If you're nice you'll put more effort into it, but generally it just gives you another hour to browse Kirupa :)

Morality debate anyone?