for 3d artists at kirupa

[thediablo]

Hello,

got a simple question, im expecting a nice answer please :D

How did you guys started out at the 3D Scene? just tutorials?
what else?, cos i was trying to figure out commands at 3d studio
and all i could came up with is Alt + F4 :P and delete it.

im good at 2d, i want to make the next move, but im not sure
where to take the first step now, i dont want to flip and fall.

Can you help me?, just some sugestion, or your personal
memory would help.


Also...
Have you heard of Discreet Plasma ? the new 3d website
maker?, is it good? i have it, but dont want to install it yet.


ok, thanks.

Best Regards to al of you.

[eyeinfinitude]

I don't use 3D Max so I can't offer you any key commands for that program and as for where to get started, I'd say tutorials combined with experimenting is the best way to learn. Of course you're going to stumble and fall a few times, but that's how you learn from trial and error.

About Discreet, I've heard of it, but never worked with it so I'm curious myself as to what it's capable of. Let us know when you find out more.

[alethos]

Heya.

My recommendation would be to grab a book. Any introductory 3DS MAX book will be better than tutorials at this point. The book will give you a basic grounding in 3D design concepts, terminology, etc. which will be important when you move on to tutorials. Once you have the basics down, you should try to put together a few experimental projects from start to finish (very simple ones, mind you) just to get some practice with all elements from concept to final product. By then you will have an idea of what you like to do: modelling, texturing, rigging for animation, post-render work, scripting, etc. This is when you can go looking for tutorials specific to what you like to do.

That's all good if you want to be really good at 3D stuff. If you want to just dabble in it for fun, then start with a basic tutorial that teaches terminology, then branch out and try other tutorials. It's hard to get really good this way, but it's a lot more fun. :)

My best advice is that no matter which direction you head in, don't get discouraged. It's easy to get bogged down in details when you're trying to make a great product, and you just wanna give up. Don't. It'll be worth it in the end.

-Al

Disclaimer: I am in no way an expert in 3D design. In fact, I don't even consider myself at an intermediate level. I am in 3D like the art appraiser who can appreciate, critique, and even teach about paintings, but can't paint for beans.

[eyeinfinitude]

Good point alethos, I guess going through a book would be a good start as well. I'm still a n00b with 3D as well so there's a lot I must learn. I should start reading as well. =)

[eyezberg]

I was lucky enuff to get a two weeks training on 3DS Max, which was far from exhaustive, barely enuff to scratch the surface, but good to wet the appetite!
Plasma is really great..if you know a bit about Max, else I'd recommend starting with something far simpler, but good for it's use: Swift 3D! Very good manuals etc, will teach you the basics.

And: I learned Flash using just books and trying out stuff..3D might work that way to..just, the Max interface/ GUI is so crowded, most tools you won't figure out how to use them..book is good!

[thediablo]

HEY THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS!

Maybe ill buy a book, or try to get an ebook or somethng.


altought im not trying to start right away with 3d studio, maybe a lil more lower/ez program will work, so i can start figuring out the very basics of this.

Any recommendation?, its not for animations, i just need to learn
how the 3d enviroment works.

Thanks!

[DDD]

I use plasma and it is pretty good. COuld be better. The interface is exactly like 3ds max minus a few bells and whistles. I use 3ds max but not all the time I have fell in love with lightwave. But tutorials and experimentation has been my best friend. Some formal training is also nice. I basically learned everything by tutorials and thumbing thru books. 3ds max magic by new riders I found to be the best tutorial book (IMO). Keyboard commands are cool but not necessary I dont know them either.

If you start with plasma that would be great since it is a scaled down version of 3ds max. Also look into g-max it is a free product offered by discreet (of course you cannot export). For modelling. 3d is very daunting to learn but dont get discouraged a few months of timkering could yield very good results.

[mdipi]

3d i think i will pick up that book over the weekend. and what is light wave? is it by discreet? btw, do you use maya at all? i hear that it is a less user friendly interface, but it is easyer to do harder tings that nin say MAX. got any opinions on it? btw, i am 1614 in Mech! :beam: 95 kills...i just got off it.

[alethos]

I have used Lightwave, Maya, 3DS, and Truespace over the last 9 years. Here are my thoughts (in the order I used them):

Truespace: sux. Don't even bother with this.

Lightwave: If you have the money for this, get it. Especially if you are running a Unix box built especially for it. The newest engine spits out amazing renders, even without all the crazy options turned on. The disadvantages are that it is not at all easy to learn to use, and last I checked, the animator and modeller were separate entities, which might be strange for some.

3DS: I used 3DS the most because of its not-too-steep learning curve. It's very user-friendly, with a lot of scripts and plugins available for download all over the web. The render engine needs a little tweaking to get looking good (though you can always use a render plugin, or render outside of 3DS -- Brazil seems to be very popular). Advantages to using it are obviously the immense support and resources available, its ability to run on a non-NT based Win box, and the price isn't too bad.

Maya: I just started using Maya with version 4.0 a few months ago. I really like the interface. It's not as cluttered as 3DS so you get a lot more workspace, and the menus are available under your mouse at the press of a single key which really streamlines your workflow. I'm still working with modelling and texturing right now, so I haven't explored the renderer much so I can't comment on it. Overall, however, I must say I like Maya's modelling and texturing much more than 3DS's. The disadvantage with Maya used to be that it requires the NT file system if you're running a Win box, but since getting WinXP, I did away with my Win2k/Win98 dual boot (which was annoying at best).

So, overall, I love Maya (plus, the makers of Maya, Alias|Wavefront, is a Toronto-based co. :)). Lightwave is really powerful, but other packages are quickly catching up. If you want a place to start (after you understand the basics of 3D design), I would jump into Maya.

On a side note, I hear Softimage is akin to Maya, which might be another option.

rant.stop();

-Al

[mdipi]

WOW! thanks! i will take these into concideration.

[DDD]

I just started using Maya. I really fell in love with lightwave it is made by newtek. www.newtek.com Maya's interface is the most user friendly to me. You get a lot more real estate to work with. I find lightwave the best. ALthough I dont quite know why. ALot of peeps at my company has made the switch to it. SoftImage XSI I heard is pretty cool.

[eyeinfinitude]

3d-iva, you said you've been working with these programs for the past 9 years, could you show us some samples of your work? I'm just curious and I would love to see your work, you must be really good. =)

[DDD]

Actually I am getting around to putting stuff together I was just told that I cannot use my work for a portfolio with out risking getting fired and or being sued. Some small print on a NDA I signed. BUt I am really on the freelance tip now. I just gotta clear some projects and I am gonna hit the lab. If you have played rayman, spy hunter, and gex (doing some minor stuff on the halo 2 project). You have already seen some of my work. Did I say I have been working with these programs for 9 years?? If I did either a typo or I was on crack. Maya = few weeks, lightwave = bout 1year, 3ds max = few years.

Actually I just read alethos post you got me mixed up with him he said 9 years :beam:

[eyeinfinitude]

LOL oops, haha well I guess I'm going to bug alethos for samples of his work then....hahaha:P

[alethos]

LOL

I have no work to show. :)

I trashed all my Truespace crap years ago...my Lightwave stuff was never archived so it's all lost...my 3DS stuff consists of like half a dozen finished pieces and a bunch of unfinished junk. And I've only recently started Maya, like I said, so all I have so far are a few basic shapes and my first unfinished low-poly character model (pic attached). I know, it's sad...but 3D and a Biology degree don't mix too well. :)

I can answer questions about 3D, but I have no talent, or any work to show.

-Al

[eyeinfinitude]

That looks interesting, too bad you never got around to finishing it. :-\

[DDD]

Man that is a pretty cool model. You have some talent even to do that lil bit. You should finish it. Or let me....heehee

[alethos]

If you want the scene, 3d-iva, it's all yours. :)

-Al

[tommythewolfboy]

I've been using max (v3) for a couple of years (just for fun, nothing too serious!) and love that, so Plasma should be a pretty good place to start, my diablo friend. I've just started using Lightwave too (Santa must have mistakenly put me on the his good [wolf]boys list this year or something ... Funnily enough, I've only recently started using Flash because combined with the advent of s/w such as discreet's plasma or erain's swift 3d you can now get 3d onto the web pretty easily (and with sensible file sizes!!).

Anyway, this is a long and daresay boring way of saying ... yep - plasma seems as good a start as any. Keep it simple (lots of tutorials deal with advanced modelling such as faces and hands etc., ... stay away for that for a while and just stick to playing around with basics ... just use standard primitives (e.g. spheres, cubes etc. then maybe a bit of spline and box modelling). I actually started with a pat-time college course (one evening a week) which was perfect as some of the books can be quite heavy going at first, but with a little bit of hands on trainingit starts dropping into place once you've gopt the basics. Like actionscript for example, it all looks a little dauting at first until you understand a tutorial and then adapt it for little project of your own ... Just have fun :¬D COOL dragonladies for example ;)

[eilsoe]

I JUST started Maya..

and DAMN!!!


I spent 3 hours looking for the god damn ORBIT...!


You know, like in 3dsmax, the orbit key/button, makes you orbit around the scene when in perspective mode... *GRRR*


And the move view too!!


Ok maya folks, TELL ME!! :crazy: WHERE IS IT??

[alethos]

heh

Hold ALT and the left mouse button to orbit.
Hold ALT and the middle mouse button to pan.
Hold ALT and both the left and mid mouse button to dolly in and out.

:)

-Al

[eilsoe]

AAAHHH!!!

fiiinally.....


Thanx Alethos <:}



NOW I can have some fun :)

[mdipi]

its so hard to make your own stuff in 3ds :-(

[eilsoe]

hey mdipi, go here:

http://www.amazing3d.com/services/tutmax.html


That should be enough to keep ya busy for a few hours :smirk:

[tommythewolfboy]

haha - now Maya does scare me!?!!

Some other nice 3ds max sites ...

http://www.3dtotal.com
http://www.3dkingdom.org

[eilsoe]

or...

www.3dluvr.com

and

www.3dcafe.com

:)

[Kitiara]

You know, Dan is quite the 3DSMax Master, maybe he could give you a few pointers.

Personally, I've never tried drawing anything 3D. Never had the programs and if I tried in Photoshop or anything it all would come out wonky...

[eilsoe]

"wonky"...?

Is that some sorta "british only" words? :P:P:P


hehe.. like: "bugger"... :crazy:

[thediablo]

First of all, Thanks you guys for clearing alot my question, now i know, where to head first, and i also know if i get stuck i can come and ask Kirupos villagers :D:D:d


THANKS ALL!!!

[DDD]

Hey Diablo why do you always put a "O" at the end of Kirupa. I always wanted to ask that

[thediablo]

Oh!

LOL!

yeah kinda weird huh... well is all because im a FF (final fantasy)
freak lover, played since nintendo FF1 came out and have played
every each game that have come out (well have played the PS2,
version i think im gonna cry..).

But if u have played a FF, or something.
You have noticed those lik white with a pinky hairball guys that
all they do is talk and talk KUPO!! KUPOO!!!!!!!

heh... so..... KIRUPA.... KUPA.... KUPO.... KIRUPO!!

I hope it cleared youre question..

heh i think is kinda cool and original huh.

[eilsoe]

KIRUPO-PO

FFIX style ;)

[eyeinfinitude]

Oh yea I remember those lil runts, I think they're called Mogs =)

[DDD]

hahaha...okay....never played final fantasy not really into RPG

[mdipi]

Thanks for those tut sites! yeah these might keep me buissy for a few months lol! if only i got this kinda response on the 3Ds Max tut sites thread! lol. thanks.

[eilsoe]

Ok Maya peeps...


Why on earth are all my extruded polygon faces all crooked and sh*t??

[alethos]

What do you mean by "crooked", exactly?

When you use the extrude command, the face shouldn't change visibly at all. You'll get a manipulator that looks like all three regular manipulators combined. Then you can pull out the extruded face to the distance you want, then scale it or rotate it.

If you can describe your problem in more detail or even post a screenshot of before and after, I'm sure I can help further.

-Al

[eilsoe]

Here:

http://www.avalon-rev.dk/side.jpg

http://www.avalon-rev.dk/perspective.jpg


I used the polygon tool, made a shape, and extruded it! What could go wrong?

It's all crooked... and I tried basic scaling of the face, couldn't make it fit properly...

And it does it EVERYtime I extrude something... :(

[alethos]

Ok, first off, it's not really good practice to have faces that have more than 4 edges. In fact, I think that's what's causing the problem here. I whipped this together, using your image as a template. I started with a simple cube and deformed it by pulling vertexes to form the "toe" (sorry it looks like a mecha foot to me :)). Then extruded and moved vertexes and so on. Notice how no polys have more than 4 sides.

-Al

[eilsoe]

I see yes...

hmm...

well, I followed this from a tut, and that person did it just like me..


Isn't it odd it does that?

I've never seen MAX act like that...


hmm...

[alethos]

Weird...I just tried doing it your way and it turned out perfectly fine...I even tried putting one of the points off-plane and it still compensated and worked fine...

-Al

[eilsoe]

*waaah*...


:*(

[Kitiara]

'Wonky' is a lovely British word that means... well, wonky. Er, kind of 'wrong' really... crooked.

I'm not telling you what 'bugger' means, but suffice it to say there's two possible meanings to it.

And the white things in Final Fantasy are called Moogles.

[morse]

Hymmm... I like this thread. How do you rotate the perspective in MAX?

[Xero]

I have 3ds max.. yes it is popualar, but I prefer Cinema 4d :bandit:

[DDD]

Hey Morse

in the lower right hand corner there is a rotate arc button. A circle with 3 arrows coming out. Click that then rotate your perspective window

[morse]

NICE! finally! thanks man.